Printed (by Authority) by CORRIE Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT DOUGLAS, Wednesday, 22nd January, 1986 at 10.30 a.m. Present: The Lieutenant-Governor (His Excellency Major General Laurence New, C.B.E.). In the Council: The President of the Council (the Hon. J.C. Nivison, C.B.E.), the Lord Bishop (the Rt. Rev. Arthur Henry Attwell), the Attorney-General ^Mr. T.W. Cain), Mr. A.A. Callin, Mrs. B.Q. Hanson, Mr. E.G. Lowey, Dr. E.J. Mann, Messrs. J.N. Radcliffe and E.M. Ward, B.E.M., with Mr. T.A. Bawden, Clerk of the Council. In the Keys: The Acting Speaker (Mr. G.V.H. Kneale), Messrs. W.K. Quirk, W.A. Gilbey, J.D.Q. Cannan, Mrs. C.M. Christian, Messrs. S.L. Morrey, J.H. Kneale, D.G. Maddrell, R.A. Payne, P. Karran, M.R. Walker, N.Q. Cringle, C.H. Faragher, Dr. D.L. Moore, Messrs. C.A. Cain, A.R. Bell, E.C. Irving, C.B.E., A.C. Duggan, D.C. Cretney, D.F.K. Delaney, D. Martin, J.A. Brown, with Mr. R.B.M. Quayle, Clerk of Tynwald. The Lord Bishop took the prayers. BOARD OF EDUCATION — POLICY DEBATE CONCLUDED The Governor: Hon members, we turn to the Agenda Paper again and to Agenda item 7 and re-open the debate on the Board of Education policy statement. Mrs. Hanson: Your Excellency, I had made up my mind that I would not speak in the policy debate on education because I had been for five years the previous chairman but, having heard what the chairman said yesterday evening or perhaps 1 misheard, and I do apologise if I did, the board appeared to have no policy. I may be wrong, and I do apologise if I did mishear. Then, having heard the Chair­ man of Executive Council say that the situation must not be glossed over because the Boards’ Responsibilities Committee wished Tynwald to make some consideration to it, so I decided to speak. Your Excellency, having sat on both sides of the fence, as it were, as an elected non-Tynwald member for two years on the board and then as a member of Tynwald and chairman of the board for five years I think I know both sides of the coin, just as the present chairman who has had many more years of experience on the Board of Education — Policy Debate Concluded T716 TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 22nd JANUARY, 1986 board than I as both a non-Tynwald member and as a Tynwald member and a former chairman for some years and in fact — I may be wrong because I have not had time to check up in Hansard; I may be wrong — but I think the present chairman moved the resolution to Tynwald some years ago which established the board of chairmen set-up as it is at the present time. The Board of Education is, one might say, a mini-Tynwald. The members are elected to the same constituencies as the House of Keys and the Standing Orders of the board are based on the Standing Orders of Tynwald. We have 24 non-Tynwald members in the Board of Education, five Tynwald members, which makes up 29. The members are elected, if there are elections, on their own manifestos. Naturally s they want to try to carry out these promises. But the Finance and Executive Committee, comprising of the five Tynwald members and the chairman of the four committees, have the financial control, with the overall majority of one to the Tynwald members and it would be of course the majority decision that financial policies are made. The conflict arises, Your Excellency, where the members have other ideas. The plain fact is that only the Tynwald members are accountable to Tynwald. If in the new ministerial pattern of Government, when an overall policy will be decided by the Cabinet as such and approved by Tynwald, how is this policy going to be implemented? The members of the Board of Education may have other ideas. Now I do not intend to be a hatchet man. I am only trying from experience to point out the inherent difficulties. In the United Kingdom the education committees make the overall policy with the broad directions and major policy from the ministry, and the day-to-day policy of running the schools is done by school governors which cover a wide spectrum of the local community. It depends, of course, on the size of the school and it always includes teacher representation, usually the head teacher, and perhaps one or two others; it depends on the size of the school. One further comment I would like to add is that Tynwald decided that the school leaving age should be raised to 16 and naturally this has got to be paid for. I would support the idea of handing the transport over to the Transport Board. They possibly could run it more cheaply because instead of specific buses for children only it could be integrated with a provision for other passengers, providing that sufficient seat capacity space was allocated to children on certain buses. Mr. Duggan: Your Excellency, as I stated only yesterday, education is one of the priority boards. However, sir, I find I am unable to support my chairman today on one or two points of the board’s policy. Sir, I question the savings on amalgamation of the two schools in my constituency, that is, Manor Park and the Sunshine School. Both will still have to be maintained. Both will still have to be heated, especially if the infant school is to be retained as an assessment centre. Then, if the amalgamation does go ahead, I believe all staff are to be kept on and possibly even more teachers taken on to cope with future increasing numbers of pupils. Also the board will still be paying the salaries of two heads, though one of course will be demoted to that, I believe, of an ordinary teacher. The board has taken no steps Board of Education — Policy Debate Concluded TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 22nd JANUARY, 1986 T717 to meet the parents in my constituency but they have done in Santon and Patrick although the larger area is in Pulrose. Turning back to Pulrose which is the Island’s biggest council estate where many families live, and there will be more to follow shortly as the Corporation at this very time has several three-bedroom houses empty which will mostly be allocated to families; this was the case when I was a councillor; we always used to give the three-bedroom houses to people with children. I feel the board has been very short­ sighted to push very small children all in one school with much bigger children. Manor Park will only take about 210 children, not 240 as the board has stated, since it has been altered. A short period of time it could be very overcrowded but the Board of Education thinks the answer then, sir, is to extend Manor Park. 1 feel this is a ridiculous attitude when we already have a good school only yards away which could serve the community as an infant school, as the assessment centre for the handicapped children and that of a most welcome youth and community centre which we badly need in the area. As the chairman admitted yesterday, he used his casting vote against a reference back to look at the situation. But on the other hand he fully supports a huge extension to the College of Further Education to the detriment of the small schools. 1 also agree there is a need for an extension to the college but does it need to be such an enormous grand extension? 1 question this, sir, because when I visited the College of Further Education with the chairman about two years ago the place was half empty. So do we need such a grand extension, I question? Therefore I cannot support the policy of the Board of Education. Mr. Brown: Your Excellency. I must say I am a little bit shocked at the comments that have just passed from a member of the Board of Education and while accepting — Mr. Delaney: A revolution! Mr. Brown: A revolution. While accepting that the member has some constituency problems, it seems rather strange that a recommendation from a board he is a member, for an extension, which 1 certainly had questions about, is now being questioned by a member. So I think it makes our job slightly difficult. Mr. Duggan: It is closing a school down, though, is it not? Mr. Brown: Well, your figures, sir, projected by your board that you are a member seem to support that suggestion. Anyway, Your Excellency, I think the important thing from what I have to say, really, is that I think we have to be realistic in these days and we have to way up the pros and cons of whatever service. My main reason for getting to my feet on this policy is my disgust at the small amount of space given to the youth service in the Isle of Man. (Mr. Karran: Hear, hear.) There are three and a half lines given to the youth service, the youth clubs of the Isle of Man. It says nothing about the future policy of the youth clubs, how Board of Education — Policy Debate Concluded T718 TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 22nd JANUARY, 1986 they will overcome the problems within the youth service, how the Board of Education sees the future for that youth service.