14 septembre 2018 – Times & Transcript Gallant says he didn’t recruit his political rival Higgs ADAM HURAS & JOHN CHILIBECK LEGISLATURE BUREAU Brian Gallant PHOTO: ADAM HURAS/LEGISLATURE BUREAU FREDERICTON • Brian Gallant says he has never tried to recruit his Progressive Conservative political rival into the Liberal government - but if another party staffer did, he wouldn’t have allowed it to happen. In the aftermath of Blaine Higgs’ bombshell in the first provincial election debate on Wednesday night, alleging that the Liberals offered him the job of finance minister or deputy, the Liberal leader spent much of Thursday explaining a meeting that did happen between the two after the Tories lost the 2014 election to Gallant. 14 septembre 2018 – Times & Transcript Gallant says it wasn’t about Higgs taking a job in cabinet or the civil service - and instead about hearing from the former Progressive Conservative finance minister about his ideas to balance the budget. But the Liberal leader did say on Thursday that there were other meetings with Higgs with other staffers, leaving open the door that the offer could have come from someone else. Fed up with Gallant attacking his record as finance minister, Higgs alleged in dramatic fashion during Wednesday night’s debate that the Liberals tried to hire him, essentially saying: If I’m so awful, why did you offer me a job? It caused Gallant to call a rare meeting with journalists on the campaign bus in the early hours of the day to explain why he met with Higgs shortly after the Liberal election win. The Liberal leader then produced what he said were his own notes from that meeting that he contends shows what was discussed. The notes are undated and are largely point form, touching on a range of topics - plans for a wage freeze, the closure of transportation garages, among others - although without specifics. There’s no line about a job offer. “I would have been in no way have interested in him joining us in any shape or form,” Gallant said. “Whether that be as deputy minister or minister. “And if there are other officials that would have met with him and given him that impression, it certainly wasn’t with my authorization.” But Gallant is not unequivocally saying the offer didn’t happen and that there were other meetings with other Liberal officials. HIGGS PROVIDES MORE DETAIL Speaking in Minto Thursday, Higgs said he had several meetings with Gallant and or members of his transition team shortly after the fall election of 2014, where the former finance minister told the premier he had been frustrated with the Progressive Conservative government’s unwillingness to slay the deficit over the previous four years. 14 septembre 2018 – Times & Transcript As for the Liberal leader’s assertion that no one on his team was authorized to offer Higgs a job, the Tory leader offered a sarcastic response. “He didn’t know anything about the property tax scandal either, despite the conflicting statements,” Higgs said.“Has Gallant every taken ownership for anything? I think the role of premier is to take ownership. So he can deflect it, he can hide it.” Higgs said he had the affidavit ready during the debate because he anticipated Gallant would “rail” on him again, as he has over the past four years, calling him the “failed finance minister” and launching attack ads against his record. “Isn’t it ironic that someone who spent so much time trying to denigrate me would offer me a job in a senior post in the government? Ironic, irresponsible and hypocritical.” Initially Higgs said that talks about him possibly taking a job with the Liberals extended to the new government’s first budget in March 2015 - a span of more than five months. But Tory spokeswoman Nicolle Carlin later corrected this date with notes and a rough timeline of the meetings between the two sides that she said went up to the end of November, closer to a two-month period. According to this timeline, Gallant invited Higgs to a meeting shortly after the September 2010 election and they agreed to lunch together at the Crown Plaza hotel, a short distance across the street from the legislature, the purpose of which was to help the Liberal transition team. Next, Higgs met with cabinet minister Ed Doherty at his Fredericton office and another senior government official to talk about putting together a presentation on the province’s finances. Higgs’ presentation was eventually provided to the transition team that included the premier’s chief of staff Jordan O’Brien, cabinet minister Victor Boudreau and Len Hoyt, part of Gallant’s transition team into government. Two further meetings were held with Hoyt, which is when, Higgs says, the lawyer made him the job offer. 14 septembre 2018 – Times & Transcript “Len Hoyt did meet, as with others, with Blaine Higgs,” Gallant said on Thursday morning. Gallant didn’t say whether Hoyt offered Higgs a job. “Len Hoyt, I spoke to him yesterday, does not recall any of that, but he said he would looked through his notes to see if it was brought up by Higgs and see if he reacted to it,” Gallant said. “I can tell you that if any of my officials would have came to me with the idea, I would have refused.” Hoyt has not returned several calls and emails for comment. Gallant contends the meetings with Higgs happened as part of transitioning into government. “He consistently and repeatedly said he could balance the books in four years if it weren’t for premier Alward and the rest of his cabinet,” Gallant said. The Liberal leader says he wanted to hear him out “because at the end of the day I can certainly understand the premier does make the last call on major decision. “So I wanted to see if he had some ideas that were good and could be implemented by us,” Gallant said. “After the meeting, and with these detailed notes, you can see that there wasn’t any ideas, except for a hiring freeze, (that I agreed with).” ANOTHER CANDIDATE WEIGHS IN Moncton Centre candidate Chris Collins also stepped forward on Thursday to say he saw in person the Gallant-Higgs meeting take place, alleging that he was then told by a Liberal staffer that it was about luring the Tory into cabinet. Collins, the now independent politician who divorced himself from the Liberals to launch heavy criticism of Gallant and his handling of harassment allegations that the Moncton MLA faced, said he sat at a nearby table as the two were having lunch at the Fredericton Crowne Plaza. Collins said he then asked what the meeting was about. 14 septembre 2018 – Times & Transcript “They said they were trying to get him to come over to be the finance minister,” Collins said, although declining to name the staffer who provided those details. He did say it wasn’t Hoyt. DOES THIS IMPACT THE CAMPAIGN? Whether this changes the discourse of the election runoff remains to be seen. “There’s not only smoke, there’s some fire,” Roger Ouellette, political science professor l’Université de Moncton, said in an interview.“The line of defence for Higgs is that ‘well, if I was so bad as finance minister, why would you approach me to be your minister or deputy? If you wanted to hear me out, how bad could I have been at my job?’ “I think Higgs put Gallant on the defensive.” But J.P. Lewis, associate professor of politics at the University of New Brunswick, believes the Higgs bombshell “isn’t a big deal,” only saying that it could have been big for third parties in underscoring that the Liberals and Progressive Conservatives are one and the same, with interchangeable politicians. But he added that it likely won’t be the case as none of the Greens, New Democrats or People’s Alliance are a “legitimate threat” to the two main political parties. Tom Bateman, a political scientist at St. Thomas University, said that the Higgs allegation will stand as a memorable moment in the campaign, but it won’t neutralize Gallant’s criticisms of the former finance minister’s record. “I don’t think one has too many legs,” Bateman said. “People rarely win debates, but the question is ‘who really loses?’ I don’t think anyone really lost anything.” .