The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR FRANCIS TERRY MCNAMARA Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: March 18, 1993 Copyright 1998 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born and raised in New York State U.S. Navy World War II and Korean War Russell Sage College, McGill and Syracuse Universities Entered Foreign Service 1956 Salisbury, Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland 1957-1959 Economic officer British influence INR 1959-1961 Analyst – Rhodesia/Nyasaland, Mozambique/Angola Elizabethville, Congo 1961-1963 Political situation International rivalry Tshombe Insurrection and UN intervention US role in dispute American evacuation Death threats and personal safety Living in chaos Tanzania 1964-1966 Economic officer Troubled relations Nyerere US activities and interests Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk 1967 Temporary duty to Zambia 1 AF, South Africa 1967 Vietnam, CORDS 1967-1971 Tet offensive Operations Quang tri (1968-1969) Danang (1969-1971) Principal officer US military withdrawals Naval War College 1971-1972 Cotonu, Dahomey 1972 Coup d’etat Radicalization of regime Sahel drought Can-Tho, Vietnam 1974-1975 Consul General Economics in Mekong Delta Personalities and corruption Evacuation by sea Guam after Vietnam Evacuation 1975 Vietnam Task Force 1975 Quebec, Canada 1975-1979 Separation and US policy 1976 elections Senior Seminar 1979-1980 Public Affairs Bureau 1980-1981 Deputy Assistant Secretary Gabon 1981-1984 Ambassador U.S. interests President Bongo French influence Hoover Institute 1984-1985 Beirut, Lebanon 1985-1987 2 Deputy Chief of Mission Security Live in war-torn Beirut Staff and morale Local politics and divisions Hostages Oliver North and hostages National Defense University 1988-1989 Fellow Cape Verde 1989-1992 Ambassador U.S. interests Politics INTERVIEW Q: Terry, I wonder if you could start off by telling me when and where you were born and a little about your family background and education, so we'll know who you are. MCNAMARA: I was born in Troy, New York, November 2, 1927, of an Irish-American family. Troy, New York, is a small, industrial town in upstate New York, just north of Albany, the capital of New York State. I had a happy, easy childhood, in a large, extended family, both maternal and paternal sides. I was taken under the wing of my maternal grandmother and grandfather, to a great extent. The first son was taken under the wing of the paternal side, and I, as the second son, was taken under the wing of the maternal side. They were really marvelous people, both immigrants from Ireland. It was a warm, happy atmosphere, and a marvelous atmosphere for a child to grow up in. Three generations living together, interacting. I have seven brothers; I'm the eighth boy, no sisters. My father died when he was about 41 or 42 years old. By this time, I'd been in the Navy. I ran away and joined the Navy when I was a young boy, during World War II. I should go back, I suppose, through school. I went to a Catholic parochial school. I then went to a Catholic boys' military school, called La Salle, and didn't like it. Got myself out of it and went to a regular public high school for one year. And then got myself into the Navy and went off at the tail end of World War II. Ultimately went to submarine school and was in the submarine service at the end of the war. Was discharged when I was 18 years old, after having been in the Navy for about two years, and was therefore a veteran. 3 I then took a special college entrance exam for veterans, passed it, and was admitted to college with my high school mates, who had stayed at home. And so I never missed a beat. I didn't formally graduate from high school, although they gave me a high school diploma. But it was more a formality than anything else. So I only went to high school for a full two years, and missed some of the things that most kids have. I didn't have any of the social side of high school that was such a big thing in my day in America. Also, I missed a lot of things like advanced math and science which I've always regretted. But, nonetheless, I don't regret having gone in the Navy. I think it was a good thing for me, and I'm glad I did it. I would have wasted my time in high school. Q: Where'd you go to college? MCNAMARA: I started at Syracuse and had some problems with the sheriff. I was the president of my dormitory, and at the end of the year, we had a party to celebrate the end of the year. I organized the party and we made arrangements for the manager of a little restaurant not too far from our dorm to cater the party. Part of the arrangement was that he would provide the beer, and we would buy whiskey together. Most of the boys wanted beer, as they didn't drink whiskey, but there were a few who did. So he was going to buy a case of whiskey, and we were going to pay for a couple of bottles, and the rest of it was his. Anyway, he got us into a crap game while we were making the arrangements. And I don't know anything about gambling; I'm not a gambler and I really know nothing about it, but two of my friends, my committee members who were organizing the party, said that he was cheating us. I don't know, but they were convinced that he was, and they convinced me that he had cheated us. So we were in a bad frame of mind in terms of our relationship with him. We were pissed off, you might say. The night of the party came, and this guy was out some place or other, drinking, and hadn't come back. The meal was prepared by his staff. We ate, but there was no beer. And the boys, most of whom wanted to drink beer, were very unhappy. We found the case of whiskey, and so I said, "Well, drink the whiskey." So they drank the whiskey, finishing the whole case. The owner came back, drunk, and found that his whiskey had disappeared. I was very angry with him, in any case, because he hadn't come back with the beer, and so we got into an argument. He accused some of the boys of stealing his whiskey. I told my constituents to pack everything up and leave. We'd already had dinner, and we'd finished the whiskey, and so I said, "Get the beer and come." In the meantime, I told him what I thought of him, and he got very angry and ordered us out of the restaurant. So we all left. 4 But we had never paid him. I gave the money back to the boys, and we all went home for our summer vacation. After he sobered up the restaurant owner got onto the sheriff and was going to have me put in jail or something. And so I decided not to go back to Syracuse. Some friends of mine told me about a girls' college in Troy that was accepting veterans, called Russell Sage College. I went there and applied for entry. They let me in, and so I went to a girls' college for the next two years. The summer between my junior and senior year (I was working as a singing waiter in an Italian restaurant in the Catskills), the Korean War broke out. I was bored with school. Q: The Korean War, June of 1950. That was my war. MCNAMARA: As a member of the naval reserve I thought, "What the hell, they'll have to give veterans another GI Bill." My GI Bill from World War II was running out, so I figured, "I'm in the submarine reserve, I'll go off to the submarine base at New London, Connecticut, for six months to one year. Then I can return to college with adequate GI Bill eligibility to finish my degree." Q: Torpedoing many North Korean ships. MCNAMARA: The North Koreans had no navy. So, anyway, I volunteered for active duty and thought I was going to go off to New London. I went to Albany, where the naval reserve recruiting station was located. I took a physical. They sent me to Brooklyn that night, without a uniform. When I got to the Brooklyn Navy Yard I was given uniforms. In less than a week, I was on an airplane for California. When I got to California, they didn't know quite what to do with me there, so they put me on another airplane and sent me to Japan. I arrived in Japan with the first group of reservists to arrive in the Far East. We were supposed to fill out the crews of the various ships that were going into combat off North Korea. The first night, they put us in an old Japanese barracks at the Yokosuka Naval Base. While there, we were restricted to the Navy Base. That evening, after a few drinks at the Navy Club, we jumped over the wall to go in and find out what a geisha house was like. We found it very interesting. 5 Q: Oh, having occupied Japan about the same time, it was an eye-opener for the American youth. MCNAMARA: Oh, fascinating. It was fascinating. And what the hell could they do to us, whether they caught us or not? The first Marines had been wounded and were coming back from combat in Korea, and they were there at the naval hospital.