WISCONSIN HISTORICAL SOCIETY An Oral History Interview with ELLEN PROXMIRE First of two interviews Interviewer: .Anita Hecht, Life History Services Recording Date: November 18, 2008 Place: Washington DC. Length: 2.0 hours Ellen Imogene Hodges was raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and in 1945 married Wisconsin native Warren Sawall. They moved to Madison, Wisconsin, where she earned her BA from the University of Wisconsin in 1948. Six years later she and Sawall were divorced. In the early 1950s, she became active in the Democratic Organizing Committee in Madison, eventually becoming the Democratic Party's executive secretary. In 1956, she attended the Democratic National Convention in Chicago with William Proxmire. Each had two children, each was divorced, and each was committed to Democratic politics. During an evening walk in Grant Park, Proxmire suggested they marry, which they did on December 1, 1956. In 1957, her husband was elected to the U.S. Senate and the family moved to Washington. For the next 30 years, Proxmire divided her time between raising children, working in the Senate office, starting her own business, and campaigning. In 1963 she published a memoir, One Foot in Washington: the Perilous Life of a Senator's Wife. In 1967 Proxmire started her own business, Wonderful Weddings, which expanded into a successful event planning business handling major social events in Washington. In 1989, after Sen. Proxmire's retirement, the couple remained in Washington, DC, until his death in 2005 from .Alzheimer's disease. Ellen Proxmire Interview Transcript Proxmire Oral History Project PROJECT NAME: PROXMIRE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Verbatim Interview Transcript NARRATOR: ELLEN PROXMIRE INTERVIEWER: Anita Hecht INTERVIEW DATE: November 18, 2008 INTERVIEW LOCATION: Washington DC INTERVIEW LENGTH: Approximately 2 hours KEY: EP Ellen Proxmire BP Bill Proxmire DOC Democratic Organizing Committee SUBJECT INDEX HOUR1 0:00 Reasons for Creating Archive EP Family History 9:50 EP's First Marriage Moving to Wisconsin Early Democratic Activities 19:15 BP's Political Views BP's Gubernatorial Campaigns Meeting BP BP Family History 29:03 BP's Parents' Background/Influence BP's Marriage/Death of Wife Raising Children/Early Married Life 39:00 McCarthy's Senate Seat Senatorial Campaign/Democratic Party Reaction EP's Influence on BP's Views 49:38 Children with BP (death of son) Early Years in Washington DC Relationship with Lyndon Johnson Role of a Senator's Wife Ellen Proxmire Interview Transcript 2 Proxmire Oral History Project HOUR 2 00:00 Lifestyle of Senator's Wife Working in BP's Office BP's Frugality Visits to the Senate BP's Seat in Senate Chambers Gaylord Nelson 10:00 Early Senate Days/Issues Views of Gaylord Nelson Relationship with Wisconsinites Origins of Frugality Traveling Back and Forth to Wisconsin Daily Schedule in Wisconsin 20:12 Memories of the 60s/Assassinations Start of EP's Wedding Planning Business Relationships with Other Politicians/Socializing 30:05 BP's Daily Schedule Importance of Nutrition/Exercise BP's Self-Discipline/Learning Ability Difficulties of 1964 Election 40:00 Stress of 1964 Election Development of EP's Own Interests BP's Relationship with Lyndon Johnson Reasons for Pursuing Genocide Treaty BP's Overseas Travel Chrysler Bailout 49:45 Thoughts on Current Bailout EP's Businesses and BP's Reaction to Them Ellen Proxmire Interview Transcript 3 Proxmire Oral History Project HOUR1 Hour 1/00:00 Reasons for Creating Archive, EP Family History The date is November 18> in the year 2008. My name is Anita Hecht and I have the great pleasure and honor of interviewing Ellen Proxmire in her home here in Washington, DC to record the stories of her husband, the late Senator William Proxmire's life, on behalf of the Wisconsin Historical Society. So, thank you for doing this interview. Okay. 7 would like you to state your motivation for embarking on this project. I know you 've been a motivating force in getting it underway. Well, I felt his career and his life had history lessons for those in the future who choose politics as a career. He was a remarkable man who had an unusual connection to ordinary people. At the same time, he had a brilliant mind that he devoted to legislation that was helpful and perpetual in its value. I'm a history buff, and I think his life is an example of what you can do if you commit yourself to public service. We 're going to get a lot of different stories from a lot of different people about his life andVd like to know something about the people who surrounded him, and certainly you were one of the Ellen Proxmire Interview Transcript 4 Proxmire Oral History Project main people in his life. So let's start with a little bit about you, namely where you were born and when. I was born November 14l , 1924, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And you are how old today? I'm sorry? How old are you today? Eighty-four. Eighty-four. Tell me a little bit about your family. My father was an engineer who lost his job and career during the Depression, just as many people today are losing their jobs. And when you have a family, it requires dramatic things to stay alive, so when my father lost his position, he moved the whole family back to Washington, where he had grown up, my mother had grown up, and my grandparents lived, and that's how the family ended up in Washington. I went on through grade school, junior high, and high school here in Washington. And how did the Depression affect you? Ellen Proxmire interview Transcript 5 Proxmire Oral History Project Well, we were aware of the deprivation. In fact, an aunt, my father's sister, actually aunt, moved in with us to help with expenses. She was single and worked as an interior decorator at a department store so she had a steady income and we were conscious on how limited financially we were, really for years, as people are facing today. And your father went to law school? He went to law school at night while he had -1 can't remember exactly what kind of a job, but he had to commute to Baltimore for this job and went to law school at night and graduated from law school, finally, when I graduated from the ninth grade, which was 1939. And he immediately got a position in the US government at the Department of Commerce in the Patent Division and he said he would never leave government again because it provided security. And that's interesting when you think back. By then, he was almost fifty years old. So he was an educated man. He first was an engineer and then a lawyer. Very educated and very smart, and loved music and loved building things. And my mother was a teacher. So she was also educated? She was also educated and gave us all a love of books and music and learning. Ellen Proxmire Interview Transcript 6 Proxmire Oral History Project Do you know anything about the ethnic or religious background in your family? Well, we were members of the Presbyterian Church and went religiously, no pun intended, and actually I have a pin. I went for thirteen years, I think, never missing a Sunday in Sunday school. The church and family were the center of our lives. What about politics in your family? Was anybody particularly active? We really weren't politically involved or motivated. I don't even remember political discussions. My older brother is a city planner and we always were interested in books and learning, but not politics. Do you know how your parents voted, or if they voted? Well, in the District [District of Columbia] I'm not sure they could vote then. I don't remember. But politics was not a part of our lives. So we don't know if they supported FDR or the New Deal or — I kind of doubt it. (laughter). You graduated from high school in 1942. Ellen Proxmire interview Transcript 7 Proxmire Oral History Project Right. That was the year the United States entered World War II. Did you have any feelings about the war? Did it have a major effect on your life? Well, we were frightened. I remember having to pull the shades down in the house to keep it dark so that no lights showed on the street and they had neighborhood patrols. I guess at that time the government was concerned about some kind of an attack on Washington. So basically the government was decentralized, which I can't imagine happening today. But they took whole sections of the government and moved them to other cities, and that's how I ended up in Richmond, where I went to college for four years. What did those two have to do with each other, ending up in Richmond and the government being decentralized? Well, my father's office was sent to Richmond, so the whole family moved with him and it coincided with my freshman year in college. So I went to the University of Richmond and lived at home. I was what they call a "day student." So you expected to go onto college when you graduated from high school? Oh, all of us did. All of us went to college. Ellen Proxmire interview Transcript 8 Proxmire Oral History Project And what were your hopes for yourself? What did you see in your future as a young woman? Oh, I don't think we, my generation, didn't think of it in those terms. You went to learn and to have a good time and those were war years, so there were no men on the campus.