Second Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LI No. 47 A- 10 a.m., Thursday, June 14, 2001 ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C DACQUA Y, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HEL WER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN,John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON. Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHlJK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 2921 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 14, 2001 The House met at 10 a.m. Motion presented. PRAYERS Mr. Maloway: I am very pleased to speak to the bill that we have presented to the House. I ORDERS OF THE DAY wanted to say at the outset that this legislation, the purpose of it is to confirm the transfer of PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS National Trust Company's trustee and agency business to Scotia Trust. In fact, in August of DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS­ 1997 Scotia Trust bought National Trust PRIVATE BILLS Company, including all the interest of National Trust and all of its trustee and agency business. Bi11300--The Jewish Foundation ofManitoba Scotia Trust now wishes to step into the shoes of Incorporation Amendment Act National Trust, in respect of its trustee and agency business. To do so, Scotia Trust is Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on second proposing substantially similar legislation to this readings of private bills, Bill 300, The Jewish bill in each province in which National Trust has Foundation of Manitoba Incorporation any trustee or agency business. Amendment Act (Loi modifiant la Loi constituant en corporation "The Jewish I wanted to point out to the members of the Foundation of Manitoba"), standing in the name Legislature that this bill is all about saving the of the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Mr. people of Manitoba delays and legal bills in their Laurendeau). private affairs. It is all part of making this a very user-friendly government. An Honourable Member: Stand. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to say-and I know the Mr. Speaker: Stand. Member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) is interested in this particular bill because he SECOND READINGS -PRIVATE BILLS himself introduced a similar bill a few years ago, that the passage of the bill would save Bi11301 -The Bank ofNova Scotia Trust Manitobans and the Manitoba government Company and National Trust Company Act offices much time and expenses in several ways: One, eliminating the necessity of applications to Mr. Speaker: Second readings, private bills, the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench for trustee Bill 301, The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust substitutions where National Trust acts as a Company and National Trust Company Act (Loi trustee. For example, where an individual has concernant la Societe de Fiducie Banque de named National Trust as an executor or trustee Nouvelle-Ecosse et la Compagnie Trust of his or her estate or will, passage of the bill National), standing in the name of the honour­ would eliminate the necessity of a court appli­ able Member for Elmwood. cation for an order of substitution under section 9 of The Trustee Act in Manitoba to name Scotia Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Mr. Speaker, I Trust in place ofNational Trust. move, seconded by the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that Bill 30 I, The Bank of Nova Scotia The bill, Mr. Speaker, would thus prevent Trust Company and National Trust Company cost and delay to the estate and beneficiaries, Act, be now read a second time and be referred which we are all concerned about, Mr. Speaker, to a committee of this House. many of whom may be of relatively modest 2922 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2001 means. In addition, the Public Trustee may be disease who now cannot make such a change in required to be given notice of such applications, the will at all, passing this bill solves that resulting in time and government resources problem. being expended in reviewing and responding to each application. So what we have here is a Eliminating the time and effort which would potential for eliminating a lot of time and waste otherwise be required by governmental officesto by having individual trustees having to waste reflect the change fr om National Trust to Scotia time giving these notices and paying lawyers to Trust, for example, it will not be necessary to perform these functions. expend time, money and the Land Titles office resources to change the name for all land held in Currently, Mr. Speaker, there are trust by National Trust to Scotia Trust. The act approximately 85 accounts operated by a would be filed at the appropriate Land Titles national trust company in Manitoba. However, officeand would be referred to by the examiner. the approximate number of Manitobans that will benefit from the passage of the bill is much As mentioned, passage of the bill would greater than that 85. Passage of this bill will eliminate the involvement of the Public Trustee eliminate the need for a separate court appli­ and eliminate the necessity of involving the cation to be made to appoint a new trustee under overburdened Manitoba court system. So once executor. again, Mr. Speaker, you can see that it is very important that we deal with this bill and pass this In addition, the Public Trustee will not be bill. I know the Member for St. Norbert (Mr. required to be given notice of these applications Laurendeau) is also very keen to respond to the and to expend time and government resources in bill, and he is, I believe, in support of the bill as reviewing and responding to each of these well. applications. So we see here the Public Trustee having a role in this particular area if we were Referring to previous substantially similar not to proceed with this bill. In addition, we will legislation in Manitoba, in 1997 Scotia Trust - be eliminating the necessity of individuals to obtained substantially similar legislation which amend their wills who have listed National Trust transferred the trustee and agency business of as their trustee. Once again, we are reducing Montreal Trust at that particular time, Montreal legal fees to people who are trustees of Scotia Trust Company of Canada and Montreal Trust Trust. Company collectively, to Scotia Trust. The governments of Saskatchewan and Ontario also Mr. Speaker, although a will can be changed passed similar legislation in 1997 with respect to to name Scotia Trust in place of National Trust, the transfer fr om Montreal Trust to Scotia Trust. there would still be the additional expense for individuals to return to a lawyer to have the will Mr. Speaker, Ontario, on December 20, changed and relevant documentation prepared 2000, gave· royal assent for substantially similar and executed. The bill would also eliminate the legislation to the bill in respect of the transfer of need for individuals to change their wills fo r this the trustee and agency business from National purpose and save the individuals the expense, Trust to Scotia Trust. time and effort of returning to a lawyer for this purpose. So these are all the myriad and many reasons why I appeal to the members opposite Once again, if you do not pass this bill you and the members on this side of the House to are forcing Manitoba citizens to go to lawyers at move forward here, support this legislation, save additional cost to themselves to fulfill the Manitobans money on legal bills, save them the requirements ofthis amalgamation. delays they would be faced with if we did not pass this legislation.