Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan MANX HERITAGE FOUNDATION ORAL HISTORY PROJECT ORAL HISTORY TRANSCRIPT ‘TIME TO REMEMBER’ Interviewee(s): Mr David Cannan MHK Date of birth: Place of birth: Interviewer(s): Roger Rawcliffe Recorded by: Date recorded: 23rd April 2007 Topic(s): Collapse of Savings & Investment Bank [SIB] Introduction of Ministerial system Elected as Treasury Minister The 1986 Budget and income tax allowances Government reserves Manx Telecom franchise Fo Halloo Isle of Man Bank mortgages Major overhaul in Social Security UK Financial Services Act Government House Purchase Scheme FSC [Financial Supervision Commission] IOM Bank of Savings Charles Cain’s Writ for Libel Collapse of Bank of Credit & Commerce [BCCI] Replacement by Donald Gelling as new Treasury Minister Customs & Excise Agreement David Cannan - Mr C Roger Rawcliffe - RR Unidentified Male - UM 1 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan UM ... so it’s an interview with David Cannan, Legislative Buildings on the 23rd April 2007. Mr C Are you going to introduce me as an MHK or anything? RR Yes, David Cannan is MHK, previously Treasury Minister, been an MHK since 1982. I was going to ask you, in other words (laughter) ... and so he has covered the whole of the period of the second half of the growth of the finance sector. Well, David, now it was a By-Election in 1982, wasn’t it? Mr C It was a By-Election in October ’82. RR So you came in after the Savings & Investment Bank? Mr C The Savings & Investment Bank went down in April. RR Went down in June. Mr C June, was it? Sorry. RR Hmmm, hmmm. Mr C But it was being seriously talked about in the April of that year. RR April – the problems had been noticed, of that year … Mr C And were being commented on in the then, Isle of Man Times, because I referred them to Charles Cain who’d been elected in ’81 and felt that there was something seriously wrong. RR That’s right ... hmmm ... Charles Cain was rather of the opinion that it was all a lot of talk. And he sat in the Millennium Room when I was present ... Mr C Yea? RR ... at a meeting after Pannells had done their report, which we did, in two weeks to see whether it was really bust or not, and Charles opened the meeting and said, ‘Of course, this bank isn’t really bust at all.’ So by the time Jim Cain had 2 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan presented all the facts…. Mr C Yes. RR ... he said ... Charles piped up again and said, ‘Of course this bank is clearly bust!’ (laughter) Wonderful! It was! Mr C But the stories appearing in March … RR Oh they’d seen it. Mr C ... of that – indicated to anybody of any knowledge of these things – that the bank was bust … RR Yes. Mr C ... because people were suing the bank for vast sums of money and loans were not being repaid. RR That was ... that was that awful man Draper and Gasco [sp ???] ... Mr C They were suing – they were, they were … RR ... owed them £5,000,000 and he was trying to sue them for £5,000,000. Mr C Yea, yea – I know. Well, banks don’t normally – banks behave like that unless there’s something wrong. RR Well … Mr C So that was the background when I came in in 1982. I was a back bencher for four years, and then after the election in ’86. RR Weren’t you on a Board at all? Mr C Yes. RR Well, not a Chairman of any Board? 3 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan Mr C No. I can tell you some stories but I daren’t, not with a microphone – they might be libellous. I haven’t got parliamentary privilege here. RR Ummm. Mr C You haven’t risen to that one, Roger. (laughter) RR Ummm. Mr C So – but after the ’86 election ... RR Now that’s when the ministerial system started, wasn’t it? Mr C Came in – it started there and I was appointed Minister for the Treasury. RR From nowhere to being second most important job. Mr C If you say so! RR Obviously someone recognised your … Mr C If you say so. RR ... well, it is, isn’t it? Mr C If you say so. RR (laughter) I say so – it has to be. Mr C The Island, then, was in very severe state, which I recognised, because the budget of ’86 there were … RR That’s the one before your one, wasn’t it? Mr C Yea – the budget of ’86 – it must have been ’86 – yes, ’86. The Island was so short of money, there were nearly 3,000 unemployed, and at the private meeting of the House of Keys when the budget is presented, as it is now – over a week in advance, the then Chairman of the Board of Finance could not get … 4 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan RR Who was that then? Mr C David Moore. RR David Moore. Mr C ... could not get a vote that it would be supported or carried through. And so he went away and reinstated some of the cuts ... RR Hmmm. Mr C ... and came back and the House of Keys agreed to support him. But the cuts were drastic ... RR Hmmm. Mr C ... so I took over when the Island was exceptionally – it was exceptionally ummm, exceptional financial straits – put it that way – it was in financial straits. RR But it had been, more or less, since the 1950s. Mr C Well, I, I left for National Service in October ’56, at the end of October ’56 I had to stay on for an extra two weeks because of the Suez crisis – no, ’54 I went for National Service ... RR Oh yes. Mr C ... and stayed on for an extra – at the end of ’54 and stayed on for an extra two weeks because of that and didn’t get released until the beginning of November ’56. And I had obtained an appointment – a management trainee with Harrison & Crossfield at 104 Great Tower Street. RR Well lots of people were getting their jobs abroad at that time. Mr C Well, there was no alternative. RR Even qualified people like lawyers – qualified advocates were actually going and doing their law in Africa. 5 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan Mr C Yea ... well, Colin Fick did. RR Colin Fick did and Barry Stanley and someone else who did it in England. Mr C Yea, yea – well, there were the usual heavy adverts for colonial service which there had been through the ages. I had an uncle, Ted Qualtrough, who after qualifying at the Middle Temple, became a stipendiary magistrate at the Gambia. RR That’s where he went to, was it? Mr C Hmmm. RR Did he find someone we know? Mr C Pardon? RR (laughter) Did he find some lady friends there? Mr C This is ... RR (laughter) They’re laughing … two thousand one hundred. Mr C ... so errr – no, Ted Qualtrough was a stipendiary magistrate in the Gambia … RR Yes, I mean, we’d known it was then, and we know that ... Mr C ... and so I didn’t come home until 1980. RR But when we saw Edgar Mann last week, who said that when SIB – when he took over the Finance Board there was £1,000,000 in reserves only ... Mr C Yea. RR ... and when SIB went wrong and people started talking about compensation he said he had no money. Mr C That’s right. 6 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan RR So he couldn’t have done it even if he’d wanted. Mr C I took over ... there were ... there was £5,000,000 in reserves and, at that time, the contract had been given to Manx Telecom to open tender between Cable & Wireless and British Telecom and the British Telecom tender included the provisions for the upgrading of the telephone system, but also a lump – a cash sum of £7,000,000. So, in fact … RR So they bought the rights to operate. Mr C For a monopoly for twenty years. RR That is about – that’s passed, isn’t it? Mr C Pardon? RR That twenty years is up? Mr C Yea, it’s past. And that’s why Cable & Wireless are coming in and all sorts of things are happening now. It’s been a new –a new deal has been struck. RR Hmm, hmmm, hmmm. Mr C Interestingly, the franchise given to Manx Telecom made no mention of mobile phones. And, of course, when the – so there was mobile phones came in as they are now. RR Were there any mobile phones then? Mr C They had been invented ... RR Hmmm. Mr C ... so when mobile phones became what they are today, there was no conditional restriction on their use or charging ... RR Hmmm, hmmm. 7 Manx Heritage Foundation: TIME TO REMEMBER: David Cannan Mr C ... and it is only now, under the new agreement with Manx Telecom ... errr ... that other operators are allowed to come in, and Cable & Wireless are starting in July – operating a mobile phone service, which, of course, has led to the revision of phone charges by Manx Telecom. RR Hmmm, hmmm. Mr C The surprise is that they couldn’t manage it before. RR That’s always the way. Now tell me – going back to when you came here.