28 November 2018 No 26 ISSN 1664-7963 Current Concerns PO Box CH-8044 Zurich Current Concerns Switzerland The international journal for independent thought, ethical standards, moral responsibility, Phone: +41 44 350 65 50 Fax: +41 44 350 65 51 and for the promotion and respect of public international law, human rights and humanitarian law E-Mail: [email protected] Website: www.currentconcerns.ch English Edition of Zeit-Fragen For a factual clarification of history, causes and effects of migration A new book by Hannes Hofbauer An Interview with Hannes Hofbauer * On 20 October 2018, Hannes Hofbau- er presented his book “Kritik der Migra- “Hundreds of thousands of single Mus- ing economic cycles, indeed the tech- tion. Wer profitiert und wer verliert (Cri- lim men, hundreds of thousands of re- nical prerequisites for them, from the tique of Migration. Who benefits and who jected asylum seekers and an unknown development of energy supply to the number of illegal residents create the school system, will not succeed without loses)” in Switzerland. Following his lec- greatest demographic, social, cultur- a young, agile generation. But it is pre- ture, Current Concerns conducted the fol- al and political problems both in their cisely this generation, the men ahead, lowing interview with him. countries of origin and in the coun- who has gone into foreign countries tries of destination in Western Europe, and is bitterly lacking at home; it forms Current Concerns: Mr Hofbauer, today above all in Germany, Austria and Swe- a bridgehead that will trigger subse- you presented your new book “Kritik den. The effects in their home country quent migrations.” der Migration. Wer profitiert und wer are evident. States destroyed by wars verliert”. What motivated you to take up and crises, societies permeated by mu- Hannes Hofbauer. Kritik der Migration. tual hatred of the respective enemy Wer profitiert und wer verliert. this rather explosive topic? (Critique of Migration. Who benefits and Hannes Hofbauer: This can be traced would need every helpful hand for re- construction. The creation of function- who loses.) 2018, p. 159 back to years of experience with the topic of migration: On the one hand, I am con- vinced – as probably many people are – the awareness there. I’ll have a look at his- state of research on the question of mi- that migration is an expression of ine- tory, and I’ll have a look at the causes, and gration? quality, of great regional inequality – of also at the effects of migration, both in the It struck me that seen from my social- an inequality that is growing ever stronger migrants’ countries of origin and in their scientific approaches – I am an econom- worldwide. On the other hand, I have seen countries of destination. ic historian – migration actually did not that in many liberal milieus – anyhow left- occur at all in research for many dec- wing milieus – migration is presented as Migration is not a ades. Today, social scientists, histori- something positive. So I thought to my- condition of human life ans, and political scientists are increas- self, I would like to dedicate myself to this In your book you also described the start- ingly concerned with migration. At first contradiction; I will try to contribute to ing point for your research. What is the glance, I find that interesting, and it probably has to be done. Then, howev- er, there is the observation that is very *Hannes Hofbauer Wer profitiert und wer verliert (Critique was born in Vien- of Migration. Who benefits and who central in this more recent migration re- na in 1955. He is an loses, 2018) search, which says: “There has always economic and social been migration”. I would agree to that, historian and works but the more recent migration research as a publicist and implies with this statement that migra- publisher. Numer- tion is a condition of human life, and that Hannes Hofbauer ous publications is where our paths separate, the paths of (picture ma) at Promedia Ver- the more recent migration research and lag, among others: my own view of migration, because I am Verordnete Wahr-heit – Bestrafte Ges- of the opinion that admittedly, migration innung. Rechtsprechung als politisch- es Instrument (Prescribed Truth – Pun- has always been there, is human, but it ished Attitude. Jurisdiction as a political is not a condition of human life. I can instrument, 2011); Slowakei. Der müh- also underlay this with figures, as I have same Weg nach Westen (Slovakia. The looked at what has happened since the ardous road to the West (together with Second World War, at how many people David Noack), 2012); Die Diktatur des in the world have to leave their homes Kapitals. Souveränitätsverlust im post- every year. You can see that in the 1950s demokratischen Zeitalter (Dictatorship to the 1970s it was about 0.6% of the of Capital. Loss of sovereignty in the world’s population and from the 1990s post-democratic age, 2014, 2nd edition 2015); Feindbild Russland. Geschichte on it was 0.9%. So it is increasing, but einer Dämonisierung (Enemy image of that is still far from being proof that mi- Russia. History of Demonisation, 2016, ISBN 978-3-85371-441-6 (Book) gration is a condition of human life; it is 5th Edition 2017); Kritik der Migration. ISBN 978-3-85371-864-3 (E-Book) continued on page 2 No 26 28 November 2018 Current Concerns Page 2 ”For a factual clarification …” continued from page 1 “In their study published in July 2016, But it gets worse. According to the IMF the IMF statisticians took the trouble study, the monetary remittances of em- rather the opposite: The norm is not the to quantify the macroeconomic conse- igrants to their home countries are im- quences of mass migration for the coun- pairing the local economy. […] migrant; the norm is the one who stays. tries of origin. Her findings reveal the The lack of young and healthy people EU eastward enlargement whole absurdity of the structural ine- and thus the disproportionately high quality between East and West and as- proportion of old people in the mi- policy has stimulated migration sign the crucial importance to migra- grants’ countries of origin also cause What do you say about EU policy on mi- tion. Without migration, according to exploding costs in the health and pen- gration? You spoke of immigration to the the IMF, Eastern Europe would have a sion systems, which the states cannot EU “by way of asylum”... significantly higher Gross National Prod- cover. ‘The departure of some of the I want to go back a little before I get to uct (GNP); specifically: ‘If there had youngest and brightest makes Eastern this immigration by way of asylum. I be- been no emigration between 1995 and Europe’s catching-up process with ad- 2012, the real GNP would have been 7 vanced countries a major challenge,’ the lieve that the European Union, in its en- per cent higher on average (slightly dif- IMF concludes in diplomatic language.” largement, has pursued a policy that has ferent from country to country)’. (Hofbauer, pp. 211) fueled and incited migration, by leading to a clash of completely different levels of living, working and salary – in the east- welcome, but was indeed somehow fuelled being able to protect themselves. This de- ern enlargement in 2004 and then again by it, although it was clear from the out- stroys agriculture and farmers in these in 2007 with Romania and Bulgaria. The set that the Geneva Convention does not countries and deprives them of their basis European Union has done nothing to har- apply to war refugees. The Geneva Con- of subsistence. This, in turn, means that monise these levels. As a community and vention is intended to protect people who their sons, or even they themselves, have economic union, it has indeed harmonised are racially, politically or religiously per- to set out to find a better life elsewhere. the economic sphere – one can also speak secuted, but it cannot protect people flee- of a convergence of the economy. In other ing from zones of crisis and war. Never- Do you have a specific example of this? words, the exchange of goods, the move- theless, the European Union – and above It all began in Ghana; that was one of the ment of capital and the provision of ser- all Germany – acted as if these people first countries with which such a part- vices have been quasi treated convergent- were entitled to asylum. Subsequently it nership agreement was concluded. In the ly, but not so the social spheres. These was seen that half or even more than half poultry market there, for example, 95% areas were left to the national states. of the people who applied for asylum in of poultry was offered on the local mar- The consequence of this was that coun- Germany have already received a negative ket by local farmers before the agreement tries met and clashed, in which wage lev- asylum decision, and in Austria the figure between the European Union and Ghana, els were ten times or – as in Bulgaria – is as high as 70%. In other words, it was and only 11% afterwards. twenty times lower, if we compare them clear from the outset that it was complete- to Germany – where people have com- ly absurd to ever want to deal with this Wars cause migration pletely different life designs. I think that mass migration via the asylum question. You said that Ms Merkel’s welcome ad- this encouraged mobility and migration. But this happened in 2015 with what I dress in 2015 and her statement “We can In 2012, the World Bank noted that 20 call the great migration of Muslims.