Former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker, III, whose 30-year legacy of public service includes senior positions under three U.S. presidents, was interviewed at the 2020 Starr Federalist Lecture at Baylor Law on Monday, October 13 at noon CDT. Secretary Baker was interviewed by accomplished author and distinguished trial lawyer Talmage Boston, as they discussed Secretary Baker’s remarkable career, the leadership lessons learned from his years of experience in public service, and the skills and capabilities of lawyers that contribute to success as effective leaders and problem-solvers. Baker and Boston also discussed Baker’s newly released biography, The Man Who Ran Washington: The Life and Times of James A. Baker III, by Peter Baker and Susan Glasser. The Wall Street Journal calls The Man Who Ran Washington “an illuminating biographical portrait of Mr. Baker, one that describes the arc of his career and, along the way, tells us something about how executive power is wielded in the nation’s capital.” In Talmage Boston’s review of The Man Who Ran Washington, published in the Washington Independent Review of Books, Boston states, “[This] book provides a complete, persuasive explanation of how this 45-year-old prominent but politically inexperienced Houston transactional lawyer arrived in the nation’s capital as undersecretary of commerce in July 1975, and within six months, began his meteoric rise to the peak of the DC power pyramid…” The New York Times calls it “enthralling,” and states that, “The former Secretary of State’s experiences as a public servant offer timeless lessons in how to use personal relationships, broad-based coalitions and tireless negotiating to advance United States interests.” The Federalist Papers are a collection of 85 essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay between 1787 and 1788. The authors wrote under the name “Publius,” Transcript by Rev.com (Updated: 30 Nov 2020) Page 1 of 13 making the case for the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, outlining how the new government would operate and why it was the best choice for the United States of America. This course has been approved for Minimum Continuing Legal Education credit by the State Bar of Texas Committee on MCLE in the amount of 1 credit hour. Brad Toben: Good afternoon, I’m the Dean of Baylor Law School. My name is Brad Toben, and it’s my delight to welcome to you today to a virtual front row seat as our good friend Talmage Boston interviews former Secretary of State James Baker III. Mr. Baker, of course, was a powerhouse of presidential leadership and politics over the course of several decades. He served under the administrations of four United States presidents. Secretary Baker was going to be the capstone speaker for our Baylor Law 2020 Vision for Leadership Conference which unfolded last month, September 14th through the 17th. The Secretary was scheduled to speak, in fact, on September 17th, Constitution Day, which would have marked the 233rd anniversary of the signing of the Constitution. Unfortunately, COVID-19 intervened. Secretary Baker and Mrs. Baker both became ill with the coronavirus. I’m happy though to report that the illness is now in their rear-view mirror and we have the pleasure today of having Talmage Boston sit down with Secretary Baker to review a remarkable career in the public square. Talmage Boston himself, a go-to lawyer, perennially referred to as a super lawyer. Talmage is a history buff, and a prolific author. He has authored a book in which he sat down with presidential historians and looked at the qualities of leadership as demonstrated by various United States presidents. I’m also delighted today to note that this capstone appearance by Secretary Baker marks our sixth Starr Federalist Papers Lecture Series, an endowed lecture series endowed by John and Marie Chiles, in honor of Judge Starr. The purpose of the Chiles in honoring Judge Starr with the establishment of this endowed series was to draw attention and to showcase the importance of the Federalist Papers authored by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, following the signing of the Constitution. The Federalist Papers were widely discussed and published as a means of Hamilton, Madison and Jay showing those within this young burgeoning republic how the government would work under the new Constitution. Hamilton and Jay, of course, were lawyers. Hamilton, the first secretary of the treasury, John Jay the first chief justice of the United States Supreme Court, and Madison, although not a lawyer, was learned in the law and of course served as the fourth president of the United States. The Papers were written from 1787 to 1789 when, of course, the Constitution was ratified. The work of Hamilton, Madison, and Jay in authoring the Federalist Papers and then, of course, so to say, going on the road to convince those living within what was the Confederacy, that the Constitution would form a strong and lasting government with a remarkable example of leadership. And today we will be exploring with Secretary Baker this concept of lawyers as leaders, just as we Transcript by Rev.com (Updated: 30 Nov 2020) Page 2 of 13 did last month during the Baylor Law 2020 Vision for Leadership Conference. With that, Talmage, I will turn it over to you and to Secretary Baker. Thank you. Talmage Boston: Great, thank you Dean Toben. Two years ago, I wrote a book published by the State Bar of Texas titled Raising The Bar: The Crucial Role of the Lawyer in Society. In one of the chapters, I identified as the two most important lawyers of the last 50 years. I picked Leon Jaworski on the litigation side, and right now I happen to be sitting in the exact replica of Leon Jaworski’s law office here at the Baylor Law Library. The other most important lawyer of the last 50 years is our special guest, Secretary James Baker. Secretary Baker, we’re delighted you’re here. Nobody epitomizes the concept of the lawyer leader more than you. To refresh peoples’ memories, Secretary Baker was the leader of his law firm for almost 20 years, in Houston, the Andrews & Kurth firm. Then he went to Washington, became Undersecretary at the Department of Commerce, and ultimately and essentially led the Department of Commerce. He was the leader of five different presidential campaigns. During Reagan’s first term, he was the White House Chief of Staff. During his second term, he was the leader of the Treasury Department as the Secretary of the Treasury, and during George H.W. Bush’s presidency, he was the leader of the State Department as Secretary of State. In the year 2000, he became the leader of George W. Bush’s legal team that prevailed in the landmark case of Bush vs. Gore. So we simply could not have a better lawyer leader to be part of this program than our special guest. Secretary Baker, thank you for being with us today as the final this very important conference. Secretary James Baker: Thank you Talmage, I’m delighted to be with you. Talmage Boston: Since you’ve been a leader in so many different arenas, and we’re going to be talking about “the lawyer as leader,” I think a logical place to start the conversation is, how do you define the word “leadership,”? Secretary James Baker: I think it was the great historian James MacGregor Burns who said that leadership is “a commitment to values and the perseverance to fight for those values.” I think that’s a pretty good description of leadership. The toughest part of that formula is the commitment to fight for those values and getting it done. In Washington D.C., even back in the days when I was there, it’s easy to kill deals, it’s hard to get deals done and make deals. The really difficult part of leadership, in my view, is the doing. The knowing is really important but it’s not as tough as the doing. Talmage Boston: In order to do, a lawyer leader has got to persuade, and the art of communication, both oral and written, is an essential trait for the lawyer leader. When you think about different lawyer leaders you’ve known, as well as in your own life, what’s been the key to best practices in communication? Transcript by Rev.com (Updated: 30 Nov 2020) Page 3 of 13 Secretary James Baker: If you want to lead others, you have to start out by making sure that those others have faith in your word. So truthfulness is extraordinarily important. I also think it’s important to be consistent. It’s pretty hard to be a leader when your view has changed from time-to-time during the very time you’re trying to lead others. One of the things that I used to argue for and still think is critical, in terms of a White House or a presidential campaign, is message discipline. You have to be consistent; you have to be truthful. If you’re not either one of those, people are not going to follow you. Talmage Boston: Besides being an effective communicator, another essential trait for the lawyer leader is to be able to resolve disagreements and conflicts. People typically do that through effective negotiation. Secretary Baker, in your legal, political, and public service careers, you’ve always been recognized as one of the world’s great negotiators. If you were going to write a book on the art of negotiation, what would be the theme in its first chapter? Secretary James Baker: If you expect to be successful as a negotiator, first of all you need to understand that no negotiation can be a zero-sum game.