Manukau Libraries Central Research Library ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION MNP OH 7: Peter Stichbury Interview with Peter Stichbury, potter. Interviewed by Bruce Ringer at Manurewa on 2 June 2004. Ca. 55 minutes Manukau Research Library Oral History Collection MNP OH 7 Interview with Peter Stichbury, potter. Interviewed by Bruce Ringer, Manurewa, 2 June 2004. Some minor editing of the transcription has been undertaken for purposes of clarity. Square brackets are used to indicate omissions, insertions and clarifications. The notes in the right hand column have been added after the original interview, using information from: a conversation with Peter Stichbury on 25/6/04 (PS); notes added by Peter Stichbury on reading the transcript (PSE); the commentary in Peter Stichbury Potter [videorecording], 1981 (PSP); the text to the exhibition, 'Peter Stichbury: A Survey', 2004 (PSS); and various published sources. The photographs were taken by Bruce Ringer on 25 June 2004, unless otherwise indicated. TAPE ONE, SIDE A BR [This is an interview with Peter Stichbury, potter, of Manurewa.] Interviewer Bruce Ringer, 2 June 2004. We’ll start with your life, Mr Stichbury. When did you come to Manurewa and where did you come from? PS Well, I was born in Auckland of course [and] lived in Mt Eden until I *27 (PSE). was about 25 [or] 28*. After a succession of different experiences in **First as a signalman in the Territorials, then in life – Army**, working as a office boy*** before that – I finally got Divisional Signals ('Div. enough exams to go to Auckland Teachers’ College, which was broken Sig.'), finally with the up by war service; and I was chosen to do a third year, another year, on Army Pay Office (PS). top of the two years which was the normal time to do an art specialist course. ***Briefly with the Martha Gold Mining Company, then with the New Zealand Express Company (PS). 2 Then while I was at Teachers College I made one pot with a man call Hilary Clarke, who used to operate the clay department of the art course, and from there I went to an evening class while I was an itinerant art specialist after leaving Teachers’ College. I was an art specialist for 2 ½ years. And I went to Avondale College with a potter-teacher called Robert *Robert Nettleton Field Field*, and made […] pots and had them salt-glazed at Crum Brick**. (1899-1987) taught night classes in pottery at Then I was appointed – I applied for – a position at Ardmore Teachers’ Avondale College during College, and was appointed Assistant Lecturer in Art, July 1951. the 1940s. Field, a sculptor, studied pottery at Camberwell School of Art during the 1930s, and on his return to New Zealand in 1935 took up the teaching of pottery. The young Len Castle attended Field's classes at the same time as Peter Stichbury. **'Crum Brick' i.e. Crum Brick Tile & Pottery Co. Ltd, established by Albert Crum and sons in Portage Road, New Lynn, in 1929. Crum had in earlier years established the New Zealand Brick, Tile & Pottery Co. Ltd, taken over by Amalgamated Brick & Pipe Co. Ltd in 1927. Sources: Gail Henry, New Zealand Pottery: Commercial and Collectible, new ed., Auckland, 1999; Dick Scott, Fire on the Clay, Auckland, 1979. I found an embryonic pottery with two wheels which were completely hopeless - nothing else - and from that stage I built it up into a very 25 successful pottery section of the art department. In 1957, through the fact that I had been teaching and potting for those *Fellowship of the times I was living at Ardmore College, of course (which was a Association of New Zealand Arts Societies, residential college) - and my wife [Diane] and I had been married […] funded by the Department in 1956, and she was part-time librarian for a while - I applied for a of Internal Affairs (PSE). scholarship to go overseas run by the Association of New Zealand Art Societies.* The scholarship enabled me to go to Bernard Leach in St Ives, the well- *Bernard Leach (1887– known potter, and to Michael Cardew, another very well-known potter, 1979), British potter, founder of pottery studio who was pottery training officer at Abuja in Nigeria.* movement in 1920s, author of the classic text, A Potter’s Book (1940) etc. Michael Cardew (1901– 1983), Leach's first pupil, author of Pioneer Pottery, etc. "The writings of 3 Bernard Leach and Michael Cardew were the early inspirational forces for potters in both New Zealand and Australia, inspiring them with a belief that a life of dignity and fulfilment could be had from working with one's heart, head and hands, making ceramic art accessible, bringing objects of beauty to all, while providing a satisfying livelihood for the potter …", Janet Mansfield, Contemporary Ceramic Art in Australia and New Zealand, Roseville East, Aus., 1995, p. 12. Leach visited New Zealand in 1962; Cardew in 1968 and 1981. On Cardew's first visit, he stayed with the Stichburys in Manurewa for six weeks, potted, and held a week- long pottery school. The pots Cardew made during this period were fired by Peter Stichbury and Neil Grant over one weekend in the oil-fired kilns at Manurewa and Ardmore, and sent to the Pan Pacific Arts Festival, where Cardew was guest exhibitor (PSE). We were there at Leach for six months, and I was able to develop my throwing skills there, […] mainly with the help of Bill Marshall, the foreman. Bernard was 70 at the time and he was a bit distracted, I think, by other events in his life. So I didn’t see a lot of him, although we did have some good discussions; Bill Marshall, the foreman, was the leading light as far as I was concerned. Then we travelled around Europe for a couple of months and saw potters, and potteries, and exhibitions, at museums, and climbed many stairs of the steeples of the churches and such-like, and had a wonderful time visiting the Van Gogh collection in Amsterdam, which was one of 50 the highlights. Then we flew to Nigeria eventually, and it was just magic! Cardew treated me as an equal, so that I could make anything that I wanted. He wasn’t concerned about teaching me anything, because I could throw at that stage […] that was a very exciting and rewarding experience, and it has really influenced both Diane and I all through our lives. 4 It was a humbling experience, because you went to villages where *"Imagine working in a women made pots with huge skill.* And up at a place called Sokoto, for pottery made of mud huts with thatched roofs. The instance, there was a colony of potters where men made and fired pots indigenous pottery was and the skill of these people was just amazing. They’d been doing it tremendous …" (PSP). since Neolithic times, of course. BR What was Cardew doing there? PS He was appointed – Cardew had a wonderful experience - I could go on *Winchcombe Pottery, for hours about this, of course, but … He worked with Bernard Leach in near Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. Cardew the 1920’s and set up or re-established an old pottery at Winchcombe, was there 1926-1939. which didn’t work properly, because he was trying to revive English country pottery and people weren’t really interested in it.* And he wanted to sell them very cheaply, so that people could take advantage of this. But that didn’t work, then he went to Ghana,* and followed another *Specifically, to Achimota potter there called Harry Davis who was a famous potter [who] came to College, as part of a British Government initiative to New Zealand in 1962 and set up here. Then from there – that didn’t establish a commercial work – it was during the war, and they over … tried to get him to do too pottery industry and supply much, so that just collapsed after the war. pottery throughout West Africa. Then he saw an advertisement in the Times for a pottery training officer *Cardew was appointed wanted in Nigeria so they could set up small potteries around the Pottery Officer in the Nigerian Department of country and establish a new industry.* And of course he was paid this Trade & Industry in 1950. time so he was in seventh heaven […] He established this fabulous He worked in Abuja, first pottery – mud huts - and … there he is…[PS reaches forward and for the British Government shows…] and after independence for the Nigerian Government, until his retirement in 1966. BR … a photo of Cardew in a Nigerian village* surrounded by villagers *That is, at the Abuja with the raw materials. Pottery Centre, the 'raw materials' being clay (PSE). PS These people [were] Gwari. He used to send the boys out to a clay-site which he discovered, and they would dig it [the clay] and the women would bring it back in calabashes, and he’d pay them with either a shilling or a ten pence depending on the size of the calabash … The kiln sheds [are] in the background there. BR That’s a kiln shed, is it? PS This is his pottery set up. BR It is a wonderful form in itself, the building. PS Beautiful! So this is the atmosphere I was working in. And we traveled *See: Peter Stichbury, 'The around Nigeria quite extensively. It’s a huge country, twice the size of Abuja Scene, New Zealand Potter, 2:2, December France. So we were there for nearly nine months*, then came back 1959, pp. 19-28; 'Hausa here, and I was appointed a full lecturer** just after returning to a brand Pottery', New Zealand new pottery that the principal had asked me to design before I went Potter, 3:1, August 1960, away.