A Great Woman Theory of History: AN INTERVIEW WITH MARGARETHE VON TROTTA Author(s): Karen Jaehne, Lenny Rubenstein and MARGARETHE VON TROTTA Source: Cinéaste, Vol. 15, No. 4 (1987), pp. 24-28 Published by: Cineaste Publishers, Inc. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/42683187 Accessed: 08-02-2019 11:13 UTC JSTOR is a not-for-profit service that helps scholars, researchers, and students discover, use, and build upon a wide range of content in a trusted digital archive. We use information technology and tools to increase productivity and facilitate new forms of scholarship. For more information about JSTOR, please contact [email protected]. Your use of the JSTOR archive indicates your acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Use, available at https://about.jstor.org/terms Cineaste Publishers, Inc. is collaborating with JSTOR to digitize, preserve and extend access to Cinéaste This content downloaded from 95.183.184.51 on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 11:13:26 UTC All use subject to https://about.jstor.org/terms A Great Woman =0 2 IT Oí O *3 Theory of History CQ O 0> AN INTERVIEW WITH O" (D ^ 5 MARGARETHE VON TROTTA c- CD Si by Karen Jaehne and Lenny Rubenstein oTH ãâ sí had a clear, concrete style with firm beliefs logically make a film about Rosa Luxemburg than Marga- argued and progressive and hopeful, but then, in her let- No make rethe more rethe von von a Trottafilm appropriate , who has consistently Trotta about delved , who into Rosa director has Luxemburg consistently could than be delved found Marga- into to ters, she is warmhearted, subtle and almost poetic. These the personal motivations behind political acts, as well as two dimensions in one woman made me want to address the political responses to private experience. Sisterhood her from the very beginning. It was unusual, perhaps, for has been examined in-depth in von Trotta's films about me at that time to look into a political mind that also ex- contemporary women searching for their fair share of a pressed itself on clothes, style, music, literature, and a complex world. With her most recent work , von Trotta gigantic scope of humanistic problems. She painted, investigates an even more complex world- Berlin in the drew; she had plants and studied botany and biology. She early part of the century under the shock waves of revolu- had, in short, an intellectual curiosity that sometimes is tionary fervor and an impending world war. At the center suspect in the modern world of narrow expertise. But her of that political hurricane is Rosa Luxemburg, researched spectrum of talent beyond politics is what I really wanted and revitalized in every aspect of her unique position as to bring out: how a political mind expresses itself not just a woman and an intellectual. In the following interview, in writing and at the podium but in the scope of one's Margarethe von Trotta reveals the sense of purpose and whole life. keen intellect that set her on the path to Rosa Luxem- Cineaste: Did you think of her as a 'genius'? burg in the 1 980s, a time when peace seems as improba- von Trotta: Ach, the concept of 'genius' is truly nine- ble as it did then, and when a woman in a leadership teenth century. I simply admired and respected her. She role is likely to be as lonely and thrown back on her own had patience and worked hard for what she knew and be- resources as the title heroine of Rosa Luxemburg. lieved to be important on any level. That was the begin- ning, years ago. I had no idea at that time I could ever direct a film. It was beyond my reach, really, as a woman Cineaste: It was widely asserted that Rosa Luxemburg then. was the project Rainer Werner Fassbinder was working Cineaste: Do uou know how Fassbinder seized upon the on at the time of his death. Is that the same project that idea? you developed into your film? von Trotta: No, but upon his death there was a script by Margarethe von Trotta: For many years I had wanted Peter Märtesheimer [María Braun, etc.] which Fassinder to do a film about Rosa Luxemburg. But I had told myself Iusually took and then molded according to his vision of must make at least ten pictures before I would have the his subject. Fassbinder's producer then offered the project basic craft and knowledge to approach such a woman into me, particularly because he thought as a woman, I might such a time, because I wanted to apply a mastery to it. You have a special insight. At first, the whole situation made me may remember a scene in Marianne and Julianne, where uncomfortable. I hesitated because I had intended Rosa as a photo of Rosa Luxemburg hangs above a desk. That was my tenth film, you see, but friends insisted that I do it and not only deliberate - it indicated my intention to make talked me into it. Even after agreeing, I had to find my own that film. And I offered the role at that time to Jutta way, because Märtesheimer's script was not how I con- Lampe to make with me some day. I had thought Jutta ceived re-of either the character or the history. I don't want to sembled Rosa with her high forehead; but as fate go intolikes it, tobecause it was interesting in its own way, but it have it, it turned out to be the other sister, Barbara did not reflect my understanding of Rosa. Sukowa, who would play Rosa. Cineaste: Were you able to go right into the project? Cineaste: Is your interest in Rosa Luxemburg of vona strict- Trotta: No, it's too sensitive and complex. I spent a ly political or feminist origin? All of your films year demon- and a half in research in East Berlin. The last two strate a tough feminism against a chaotic political volumes of the five that constitute Rosa's letters were not background, it seems. yet out, and I had to sort out of her other work what ever von Trotta: In 1968 during the student upheaval in Ger- could inform the film narrative. It was massive. In par- many, Rosa Luxemburg was carried as a poster through ticular, I talked to historians, and Annelies Laschitza was the demonstrations in Germany, the only woman among most helpful. She is the author of a book about Rosa and it Ho Chi Minh, Mao Tse Tung, Marx, Lenin, and so on. struck me that when you become so involved with a his- Dragged around through the streets that way, this lonely torical figure, as we both were, you develop a love and woman struck me as not really suitable for that company. understanding for that person as if they were alive and Do you know that portrait of her, with finely chiseled close to you. But I was still awed by the prospect of bring- features and somewhat saddened expression, most unu- ing her to life on the screen, and the way Rosa brought me sual and álmost emotional? I bought a few of her shorter close to Annelies really helped me face the responsibility political essays and the letters, and she fascinated me im- of doing this kind of historical film. So many minuscule mediately. On the one hand, in her political works, she problems - those of a filmmaker- stymied her rather of- 24 CINEASTE This content downloaded from 95.183.184.51 on Fri, 08 Feb 2019 11:13:26 UTC All use subject to https://about.jstor.org/terms Barbara Sukowa as Rosa makes an impassioned speech in Rosa Luxemburg ten. Questions of a filmmaker are not those of a historian, Cineaste: Did you see her personal story as a tragedy? but we managed to merge our knowledge, even where she She seems to shatter on her own principles. thought the matters not exactly weighty. I attended a von Trotta: I don't agree. She certainly had a disciplined Rosa Luxemburg symposium in Paris in 1983, but. ethical sense and she was very hard on herself as well as Cine aste: The historical approach with which you be- others, it's important to realize that when Rosa rejects her gan seems to have let you down at some point lover Leo Jogiches, it is not because he has been unfaith- von Trotta: Well, the academic language is not cine- ful to her but that he lied to her. She was utterly fanatic matic, and since I had read her 2,500 letters several times, about truthfulness, especially in private affairs. I believe at least four or five, I was looking for the individual that she believed, on the one hand, in the idea of absolute motivation more than her impact on history. I tried to sink love - a personal principle - and, on the other hand, the myself into her life as if I were faced with playing her role. idea I of one love between two people remaining steadfast was once an actress, you know. After eighteen months and of true all their lives reigned over their society. The com- that kind of research, it still took me six months to com- bination seems to have held sway over her subsequent plete the screenplay - over several drafts. life, for she never again asserted the power of total love. In Cineaste: How did you decide which historical figures the two volumes of letters written to Leo, you can perceive to include in her biography, since she knew so many the development of their relationship on an intellectual prominent figures? level, but she repeatedly asks him to write her something von Trotta: I was uncomfortable doing a film that would about their personal life or about his feelings for her.