VPL.0018.0021.0001 This document has been redacted for Public Interest Immunity claims made by Victoria Police. These claims are not yet resolved. ROYAL COMMISSION INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF POLICE INFORMANTS Held in Melbourne, Victoria On Tuesday, 4 February 2020 Led by Commissioner: The Honourable Margaret McMurdo AC Also Present Counsel Assisting: Mr C. Winneke QC Mr A. Woods Ms M. Tittensor Counsel for Victoria Police Mr S. Holt QC Ms K. Argiropoulos Mr A. Purton Counsel for State of Victoria Mr C. McDermott Counsel for Nicola Gobbo Mr R. Nathwani Counsel for DPP/SPP Mr P. Doyle Counsel for CDPP Ms A. Mitchelmore SC Counsel for AFP Ms I. Minnett Counsel for Police Handlers Mr G. Chettle Ms L. Thies Counsel for Chief Ms A. Coleman SC Commissioner of Police Mr P. Silver Counsel for Simon Overland Mr J. Gleeson QC Counsel for ACIC Ms S. Martin Counsel for VGSO Ms S. Keating VPL.0018.0021.0002 This document has been redacted for Public Interest Immunity claims made by Victoria Police. These claims are not yet resolved. 08:54:42 1 COMMISSIONER: Yes, I understand there has been some delay 09:43:08 2 in Ms Gobbo's readiness to give evidence, but there are a 09:43:17 3 number of administrative things we can deal with first. 09:43:20 4 There are a number of applications for leave to appear in 09:43:23 5 respect of Ms Gobbo's evidence that the Commission has 09:43:26 6 received. They are from Mr Pasquale Barbaro, Mr Faruk 09:43:33 7 Orman, Mr Zlate Cvetanovski, Mr Paul Dale and Mr Simon 09:43:37 8 Overland. Counsel assisting does not oppose those 09:43:42 9 applications for leave to appear. Unless anybody wants to 09:43:45 10 be heard on those I intend to grant those people leave to 09:43:49 11 appear. As is well-known by now, that doesn't mean leave 09:43:55 12 to cross-examine. I understand Mr Maidment - - - 09:44:00 13 09:44:00 14 MR MAIDMENT: Yes, we seek leave to appear on behalf of 09:44:03 15 Mr Mokbel. 09:44:03 16 09:44:04 17 COMMISSIONER: Mr Mokbel. Yes, I don't imagine - - - 09:44:06 18 09:44:06 19 MR MAIDMENT: I believe my instructing solicitor did write 09:44:09 20 to the Commission last week but it was - - - 09:44:10 21 09:44:10 22 COMMISSIONER: It seems to have got lost, nobody seems to 09:44:14 23 know about an application for leave to appear in respect of 09:44:17 24 your client but I wouldn't imagine there'd be any problem 09:44:18 25 with that from counsel assisting. 09:44:18 26 09:44:19 27 MR WINNEKE: It's not opposed. 09:44:21 28 09:44:21 29 COMMISSIONER: No one else wants to be heard on that? It 09:44:24 30 seems entirely appropriate and Mr Mokbel has leave to 09:44:27 31 appear in respect of Ms Gobbo's evidence. 09:44:30 32 09:44:31 33 MR MAIDMENT: Thank you, Commissioner. 09:44:33 34 09:44:34 35 COMMISSIONER: Now, Mr Coleman, you may not realise but 09:44:44 36 apparently your client's application for leave to appear 09:44:48 37 only relates to police officers, past and present Victorian 09:44:56 38 police officers, so I imagine you would also want leave to 09:44:59 39 appear in respect of Ms Gobbo. 09:45:01 40 09:45:02 41 MR COLEMAN: We understood we had been given standing leave 09:45:05 42 to appear. 09:45:05 43 09:45:06 44 COMMISSIONER: I can understand why you thought that but I 09:45:06 45 was told this morning that in fact that's not the case so 09:45:10 46 you probably want leave to appear in respect of - - - 09:45:10 47 .04/02/20 12988 VPL.0018.0021.0003 This document has been redacted for Public Interest Immunity claims made by Victoria Police. These claims are not yet resolved. 09:45:11 1 MR COLEMAN: Insofar as I need leave to appear we would 09:45:13 2 seek that leave to appear. 09:45:14 3 09:45:14 4 COMMISSIONER: In fact you probably would want standing 09:45:17 5 leave. 09:45:17 6 09:45:17 7 MR COLEMAN: Yes. 09:45:18 8 09:45:18 9 COMMISSIONER: I think that's probably appropriate then. 09:45:21 10 Does anybody want to be heard to the contrary to that? 09:45:21 11 09:45:21 12 MR WINNEKE: No, I don't want to say anything, 09:45:23 13 Commissioner. 09:45:24 14 09:45:24 15 MR COLEMAN: I think that was communicated to us, that we 09:45:28 16 did have standing leave, from the solicitors assisting, but 09:45:29 17 anyway - - - 09:45:29 18 09:45:29 19 COMMISSIONER: There's some confusion about that but we'll 09:45:33 20 clear it up now and make sure that you do have standing 09:45:36 21 leave. 09:45:37 22 09:45:38 23 MR COLEMAN: I'm grateful for that. 09:45:39 24 09:45:39 25 COMMISSIONER: The next thing, I understand, Mr Holt, 09:45:41 26 you've asked for a non-publication order in respect of 09:45:45 27 Ms Gobbo's partner. 09:45:45 28 09:45:46 29 MR HOLT: Yes, Commissioner. We've proposed a form of 09:45:49 30 words for that order and circulated a draft to those 09:45:53 31 assisting you. 09:45:53 32 09:45:53 33 COMMISSIONER: Yes, it seems appropriate in the 09:45:55 34 circumstances given the confidential information I was 09:45:58 35 given yesterday that that order be made. I understand 09:46:02 36 counsel assisting supports that order. 09:46:04 37 09:46:04 38 MR WINNEKE: That's not opposed, Commissioner. 09:46:06 39 09:46:06 40 COMMISSIONER: Pursuant to s.26 of the Inquiries Act there 09:46:09 41 be no publication of the name of Nicola Gobbo's partner, 09:46:12 42 nor of any information that would tend to identify him or 09:46:15 43 his current location. The name of Nicola Gobbo's partner 09:46:22 44 can be obtained from the Royal Commission on request by 09:46:25 45 media accredited by the Royal Commission or by any other 09:46:29 46 person only with the permission of the Commissioner. A 09:46:31 47 copy of this order is to be published on the door of this .04/02/20 12989 VPL.0018.0021.0004 This document has been redacted for Public Interest Immunity claims made by Victoria Police. These claims are not yet resolved. 09:46:34 1 hearing room and the rooms into which the hearing is being 09:46:39 2 transmitted. 3 09:46:45 4 Is there anything else that needs to be dealt with at 09:46:47 5 this stage? 09:46:48 6 09:46:49 7 MR WINNEKE: I don't believe so, Commissioner. 09:46:50 8 09:46:50 9 MR HOLT: Can I just indicate, Commissioner, that 09:46:52 10 transcript that was the subject of the application and 09:46:54 11 order yesterday has been reviewed and was provided back to 09:46:57 12 those assisting you. It was reviewed overnight and was 09:47:00 13 provided to those assisting you this morning so it's in a 09:47:03 14 position to go to parties with standing leave. 09:47:05 15 09:47:05 16 COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right. I'm sure the Commission 09:47:08 17 will expedite that and make sure those with standing leave 09:47:12 18 have that as soon as possible. Yes Mr Winneke. 09:47:18 19 09:47:18 20 MR WINNEKE: Commissioner - just excuse me. Last night we 09:47:23 21 received a copy of a seven page statement from Ms Gobbo. I 09:47:29 22 propose to circulate it. Obviously it hasn't been 09:47:32 23 tendered, but nonetheless it's proposed to be circulated to 09:47:36 24 those who have got leave to appear. If that could be done. 09:47:41 25 I think we have hard copies of it. 09:47:44 26 09:47:44 27 COMMISSIONER: Is it necessary to PII it? 09:47:48 28 09:47:48 29 MR WINNEKE: Has Mr Holt got it? No. 09:47:50 30 09:47:51 31 MR HOLT: It will be necessary, Commissioner. I've taken 09:47:53 32 the liberty of having a brief discussion with Mr Nathwani 09:47:57 33 and I suspect that that will be able to be a very quick 09:47:59 34 review for the purposes of that transmission. If we can 09:48:04 35 have the hard copy now. 36 37 COMMISSIONER: Yes. 38 09:48:06 39 MR HOLT: I can attend to that as quickly as possible.