CBP AND ICE: DOES THE CURRENT ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE BEST SERVE U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY INTERESTS? PART II AND III HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON MANAGEMENT, INTERGRATION, AND OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS FIRST AND SECOND SESSION NOVEMBER 15, 2005 and MAY 11, 2006 Serial No. 109–57 Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 35–822 PDF WASHINGTON : 2007 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800 Fax: (202) 512–2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402–0001 COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY PETER T. KING, New York, Chairman DON YOUNG, Alaska BENNIE G. THOMPSON, Mississippi LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas LORETTA SANCHEZ, California CURT WELDON, Pennsylvania EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington JOHN LINDER, Georgia JANE HARMAN, California MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana PETER A. DEFAZIO, Oregon TOM DAVIS, Virginia NITA M. LOWEY, New York DANIEL E. LUNGREN, California ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JIM GIBBONS, Nevada Columbia ROB SIMMONS, Connecticut ZOE LOFGREN, California MIKE ROGERS, Alabama SHEILA JACKSON-LEE, Texas STEVAN PEARCE, New Mexico BILL PASCRELL, JR., New Jersey KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, U.S. Virgin Islands BOBBY JINDAL, Louisiana BOB ETHERIDGE, North Carolina DAVE G. REICHERT, Washington JAMES R. LANGEVIN, Rhode Island MICHAEL MCCAUL, Texas KENDRICK B. MEEK, Florida CHARLIE DENT, Pennsylvania GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida SUBCOMMITTEE ON MANAGEMENT, INTEGRATION, AND OVERSIGHT MIKE ROGERS, Alabama, Chairman JOHN LINDER, Georgia KENDRICK B. MEEK, Florida TOM DAVIS, Virginia EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California DAVE G. REICHERT, Washington SHEILA JACKSON-LEE, Texas MICHAEL MCCAUL, Texas BILL PASCRELL, JR., New Jersey PETER T. KING, New York (Ex Officio) BENNIE G. THOMPSON, Mississippi (Ex Officio) (II) C O N T E N T S Page STATEMENTS The Honorable Mike Rogers, a Representative in Congress From the State of Alabama, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Management, Integration, and Oversight ....................................................................................................... 1 The Honorable Kendrick Meek, a Representative in Congress From the State of Florida, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Management, Integration, and Oversight .................................................................................. 2 The Honorable Sheila Jackson-Lee, a Representative in Congress From the State of Texas: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 36 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 37 The Honorable Zoe Lofgren, a Representative in Congress From the State California .............................................................................................................. 33 The Honorable Michael T. McCaul, a Representative in Congress From the State of Texas ....................................................................................................... 21 The Honorable Mike E. Souder, a Representative in Congress From the State of Indiana: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 19 Prepared Statement, May 11, 2006 .................................................................... 43 WITNESSES TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2005 Mr. Robert L. Ashbaugh, Assistant Inspector General for Inspections and Special Reviews, Office of Inspector General, Department of Homeland Security: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 3 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 5 The Honorable Stewart A. Baker, Assistant Secretary for Policy, U.S. Department of Homeland Security: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 9 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 11 THURSDAY, MAY 11, 2006 PANEL I The Honorable Stewart A. Baker, Assistant Secretary for Policy, U.S. Department of Homeland Security: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 48 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 49 The Honorable Julie L. Myers, Assistant Secretary, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 54 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 56 Ms. Deborah J. Spero, Acting Commissioner, U.S. Customs and Border Protection: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 61 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 63 (III) IV Page PANEL II Mr. T.J. Bonner, President, National Border Patrol Council, American Federation of Government Employees (AFL–CIO): Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 73 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 75 Mr. Arthur Gordon, President, Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 77 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 78 Seth Stodder, Esquire, Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP: Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 80 Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 82 APPENDIX Questions from Honorable Mike Rogers ................................................................ 95 Questions from Honorable Bennie G. Thompson .................................................. 102 CBP AND ICE: DOES THE CURRENT ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE BEST SERVE U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY INTERESTS? PART II Tuesday, November 15, 2005 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MANAGEMENT, INTEGRATION, AND OVERSIGHT, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:03 p.m., in Room 311, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Rogers [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Rogers, Souder, McCaul, Meek, Lofgren, and Jackson-Lee. Mr. ROGERS. [Presiding.] This meeting of the Subcommittee on Management, Integration, and Oversight of the Committee on Homeland Security is called to order. We are holding the second hearing today to examine the current organizational structure within the Department of Homeland Secu- rity for two major agencies: U.S. Customs and Border Protection, referred to as CBP, which secures our borders and ports of entry; and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, referred to as ICE, which enforces our immigration and customs laws inside the United States. I would first like to welcome our distinguished witnesses and thank them for taking the time out of their busy schedules to be with us today. When the Department of Homeland Security was established in March 2003, it housed two new agencies which were designated CBP and ICE. Both of these agencies were composed of functions from the legacy U.S. Customs Service, the former Immigration and Naturalization Service, and other agencies. The original organiza- tion of the Department also included a new Border and Transpor- tation Security Directorate, known as BTS. This office was respon- sible for overseeing and coordinating the activities of CBP and ICE. Since 2003, however, many concerns have been expressed about the ability of CBP and ICE to carry out their missions effectively as separate and distinct agencies. Some of these concerns were raised during our first hearing held in March, focusing primarily on coordination, communication, and financial issues. Various pro- posals have been made to address these problems, including the merger of CBP and ICE. (1) 2 In January, the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee held a hearing during which the chairman and ranking member asked the Department’s inspector general to as- sess whether or not there should be a merger of CBP and ICE. As part of this subcommittee’s oversight role over the Department’s or- ganization, we also will examine the inspector general’s assess- ment, which is being made public today. We are also pleased to have with us the Assistant Inspector Gen- eral for Inspections and Special Reviews who will discuss the IG’s merger endorsement. We also are pleased to have the new Assist- ant Secretary for Policy from the Department of Homeland Security in his first appearance before Congress since his confirmation. He will discuss Secretary