Printed (by Authority) by CORRIE Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF HOUSE OF KEYS Douglas, Tuesday, 30th March 1993 at 10.00 a.m. Present: detailed designs which have still to be selected. The Speaker (the Hon. J.C. Cain) (Douglas The expenditure to date has resulted in a major West); Hon. A.R. Bell and Mr. T.R.A. Groves (Ramsey); information-gathering exercise. The result of these Mr. R.E. Quine, OBE (Ayre); Mr. J.D.Q. Cannan investigations will be of considerable benefit towards (Michael); Hon. H. Hannan (Peel); Mr. W.A. Gilbey improving the Island’s drainage network and will allow (Glenfaba); Dr. E.J. Mann (Garff); Hon. D. North future funding to be targeted to the areas of most need in (Middle); Messrs. P. Karran, R.K. Corkill and G. Waft the first instance. This is irrespective of whether or not the (Onchan); Hon. B. May and Mr. W.D. Corlett (Douglas IRIS concept is progressed in part or in full. North); Messrs. A.C. Duggan and D.C. Cretney (Douglas Whilst my department is committed to progressing the South); Messrs. D.F.K. Delaney and P.W. Kermode upgrading of the sewage infrastructure and the disposal of (Douglas East); Mr. A.F. Downie (Douglas West); Hon. sewage to environmental standards, it is not irrevocably J.A. Brown (Castletown); Hon. D.J. Gelling (Malew and wedded to the original IRIS concept. As such all options Santon); Mr. N.Q. Cringle (Rushen); with Mrs. J.E.M. will continue to be fully evaluated at every stage to ensure Brown and Mr. T.A. Bawden Acting Secretary of the House. the right solutions for the Island’s needs are adopted. Based on the information gathered, the first detailed budget costs are in the course of being finalised. The detailed budget costs relate to the IRIS concept as a whole and to The Chaplain took the prayers. the Douglas and Onchan area. They include provision of storage tanks, pumping stations, transmission mains and treatment works. I must stress that they will not include any LEAVE OF ABSENCE works to the existing sewerage system. In addition, as part of this current stage of the IRIS The Speaker: Now, hon. members will be aware that the project, it will be necessary to obtain planning approval in Chief Minister will not be present at today’s sitting and I principle and consequently a precise date for finalising this have given leave of absence to the member for Rushen, Mr. current phase is difficult to define precisely. However, it is Corrin. anticipated that all of the information will be finalised by October 1993. Mr. Karran: Vainstyr Loayreyder, a supplementary. IRIS PROJECT — COST — COMPLETION — Could the hon. minister give us some idea of the estimated QUESTION BY MR. KARRAN costs of what he thinks is going to be the proposal that comes forward for us to get rid of this problem? And could he give The Speaker: We have two questions for oral answer on this hon. House some sort of indication of when we will see the Agenda and I call upon the member for Onchan, Mr. light at the end of the tunnel as far as getting this problem Karran, to ask the first of these questions. resolved - is it going to be 2, 3, 5, 10 years? Because I do think that we do need that. I think the Treasury will need Mr. Karran: Vainstyr Loayreyder, I beg to ask the that for their own capital programme. Minister for Highways, Ports and Properties: The Speaker: Minister, in replying I would draw your (1) What is the cost to date of the IRIS project; and attention to the provisions of Standing Order 46(3) which indicates that a supplementary question must not introduce (2) when will it be completed? a matter not included in the original question. But subject thereto, please reply. The Speaker: The Minister for Highways, Ports and Properties to reply. Mr. North: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member wants to know the cost. These figures are not yet available Mr. North: Mr. Speaker, of the £1.765 million approved but what I can say is that all the signs are that the budgeted by Tynwald in July 1991 in respect of the first outline and conceptual costs are inadequate. To what extent they are second initial detailed design phases of the strategy for inadequate is not yet known, and I cannot give a time scale sewage collection and treatment under the IRIS project a yet until we have the costings of the project. total of £1,044,220 has been spent to date. To answer part (2), it is not possible to say when the IRIS Mr. Delaney: Mr. Speaker, may I congratulate the project will be completed, as this is still dependent on minister for his integrity and his honesty on this point in detailed evaluation of the information gathered and on the making it clear that the original concept is not to be the final Leave of Absence IRIS Project — Cost — Completion — Question by Mr. Karran K372 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 30th MARCH 1993 objective now of the department or the Government. Could are other ways that have to be found in order to raise the I ask in relation to part (2), when will it be completed? Could money in order to keep our commitment to a caring and he give us an indication of when he expects even the prosperous society, he will make sure that things such as Douglas/Onchan area, the major population area of the rent and rate rebate schemes are fully discussed before any Island, to be completed, please? moves as far as looking at other ways to finance such an expensive project as this and it does not fall on to the weaker Mr. North: Mr. Speaker, as I have said in Tynwald members of our society to have to take the full brunt of the before, the first stage is Douglas/Onchan and that is in our neglect that has been there? five-year programme, the rest of the Island will come after that. And, as I have said, unfortunately, until we know the The Speaker: I rule that question to be out of order. costings, the detailed costings, then such a time scale is very (Mr. Cannan: Hear, hear.) The member for Garff. difficult to give. Dr. Mann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Mr. Cringle: Mr. Speaker, in the hon. minister’s first minister cannot say when the scheme will be completed but response he said that £1,440,000 has been expended to date. will it still include the concept of pumping sewage to a single Will he tell the hon. House whether the purchase of the site for disposal? property in Santon is inclusive in that amount? Mr. North: Mr. Speaker, at this stage that is still the Mr. North: No, sir, that is not included. concept. Mr. Kermode: Mr. Speaker, whereas the minister has The Speaker: A final question from the member for said he does not agree with the original concept, he would Douglas East, Mr. Kermode. agree with me that at least it was a step in the right direction, considering, as a member of that department who first Mr. Kermode: Can I ask the minister, Mr. Speaker - 1 instigated the IRIS project, that nothing was being done am sure that he is well aware of the present situation of before that and at least we tried to or attempted to address discharge into the sea - is he also aware that the European that problem. But can I ask the minister this? In view of directives that are coming forward now are looking towards the policies of his Government, of the Chief Minister’s having no discharge of sewage into our seas, and this is why Government and this Government, of which we are all a we should be addressing this problem sooner rather than member, that the economy of the Isle of Man is very later? important to us and if we are to introduce into the Isle of Man, other businesses and encourage people to come to live Mr. North: Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more, and in the Isle of Man the infrastructure is very important, and we are aware of that and we are aware of the European the longer that this takes to put into place - would he agree directives. with me that the sewerage structure at this present moment in time is not satisfactory: there are things underground that The Speaker: Because he put down the original question we do not know are happening? Could I ask the minister I will allow one final, final question from the member for or would he not agree with me that the quicker we get on Onchan, Mr. Karran. with this the better and the more beneficial it is going to be for the people of the Isle of, Man? Mr. Karran: Thank you, Vainstyr Loayreyder. Would the minister tell this hon. House, in view of his reply to this The Speaker: The minister to reply. question as far as the substantial increase in costs in dealing with this problem, what his department is going to do in Mr. North: Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more with order to make sure that the financial liabilities of this project the hon. member for East Douglas and I hope I did not say do not end up falling on the weaker members of our society, that we were against the IRIS scheme.