CP& DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1985 HEARINGS BEFORE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES NINETY-EIGHTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR AND RELATED AGENCIES SIDNEY R. YATES, Illinois, Chairman JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania JOSEPH M. MoDADE, Pennsylvania NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington RALPH REGULA, Ohio WILLIAM R. RATCHFORD, Connecticut TOM LOEFFLER, Texas EDWARD P. BOLAND, Massachusetts LES AuCOIN, Oregon Frederick G. Mohrman, D. Neal Sigmon, Kathleen R. Johnson, and Jocelyn Buck, Staff Assistants PART 8 Page Smithsonian Institution 1 National Endowment for the Arts 265 National Endowment for the Humanities 437 Institute of Museum Services 547 United States Holocaust Memorial Council 567 Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS JAMIE L. WHITTEN, Mississippi, Chairman EDWARD P. BOLAND, Massachusetts SILVIO O. CONTE, Massachusetts WILLIAM H. NATCHER, Kentucky JOSEPH M. McDADE, Pennsylvania NEAL SMITH, Iowa JACK EDWARDS, Alabama JOSEPH P. ADDABBO, New York JOHN T. MYERS, Indiana CLARENCE D. LONG, Maryland J. KENNETH ROBINSON, Virginia SIDNEY R. YATES, Illinois CLARENCE E. MILLER, Ohio DAVID R. OBEY, Wisconsin LAWRENCE COUGHLIN, Pennsylvania EDWARD R. ROYBAL, California C. W. BILL YOUNG, Florida LOUIS STOKES, Ohio JACK F. KEMP, New York TOM BEVILL, Alabama RALPH REGULA, Ohio BILL CHAPPELL, Jr., Florida GEORGE M. O'BRIEN, Illinois BILL ALEXANDER, Arkansas VIRGINIA SMITH, Nebraska JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania ELDON RUDD, Arizona BOB TRAXLER, Michigan CARL D. PURSELL, Michigan JOSEPH D. EARLY, Massachusetts MICKEY EDWARDS, Oklahoma CHARLES WILSON, Texas BOB LIVINGSTON, Louisiana LINDY (MRS. HALE) BOGGS, Louisiana BILL GREEN, New York NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington TOM LOEFFLER, Texas MATTHEW F. McHUGH, New York JERRY LEWIS, California WILLIAM LEHMAN, Florida JOHN EDWARD PORTER, Illinois JACK HIGHTOWER, Texas HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky MARTIN OLAV SABO, Minnesota JULIAN C. DIXON, California VIC FAZIO, California W. G. (BILL) HEFNER, North Carolina LES AuCOIN, Oregon DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii WES WATKINS, Oklahoma WILLIAM H. GRAY III, Pennsylvania BERNARD J. DWYER, New Jersey WILLIAM R. RATCHFORD, Connecticut BILL BONER, Tennessee STENY H. HOYER, Maryland BOB CARR, Michigan ROBERT J. MRAZEK. New York Keith F. Mainland, Clerk and Staff Director DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1985 Monday, March 26, 1984. SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION WITNESSES S. DILLON RIPLEY, SECRETARY PHILLIP S. HUGHES, UNDER SECRETARY DAVID CHALLINOR, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR SCIENCE JOHN F. JAMESON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION, ACTING TREASURER JOHN E. REINHARDT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HISTORY AND ART RALPH C. RINZLER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC SERVICE WILLIAM N. RICHARDS, ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR MUSEUM PROGRAMS TOM L. PEYTON, DIRECTOR, FACILITIES SERVICES CHRISTEN WEMMER, ACTING DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ZOOLOGICAL PARK JOHN R. CLARKE, ACTING DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF PROGRAMMING AND BUDGET WALTER J. BOYNE, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM GRETCHEN GAYLE ELLSWORTH, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF FELLOWSHIPS AND GRANTS RICHARD S. FISKE, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTO- RY/MUSEUM OF MAN WILLIAM H. KLEIN, DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN ENVIRONMENTAL RE- SEARCH CENTER MICHAEL H. ROBINSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN TROPICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE (DIRECTOR DESIGNATE, NATIONAL ZOOLOGI- CAL PARK) IRWIN I. SHAPIRO, DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN ASTROPHYSICAL OBSERVA- TORY CHARLES ELDREDGE, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMERICAN ART ALAN FERN, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PORTRAIT GALLERY ROGER KENNEDY, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMERICAN HIS- TORY JOHN KINARD, DIRECTOR, ANACOSTIA NEIGHBORHOOD MUSEUM THOMAS LAWTON, DIRECTOR, FREER GALLERY OF ART ABRAM LERNER, DIRECTOR, HIRSHHORN MUSEUM AND SCULPTURE GARDEN RICHARD MURRAY, DIRECTOR, ARCHIVES OF AMERICAN ART LISA TAYLOR, DIRECTOR, COOPER-HEWITT MUSEUM SYLVIA WILLIAMS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AFRICAN ART MARY GRACE POTTER, DIRECTOR, VISITOR INFORMATION AND ASSOCI- ATES' RECEPTION CENTER (1) PEGGY LOAR, DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION TRAVELING EXHI- BITION SERVICE ROBERT M. MALOY, DIRECTOR, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION LIBRARIES ALAN POSTLETHWAITE, ACTING DIRECTOR, CONSERVATION ANALYTI- CAL LABORATORY PETER G. POWERS, GENERAL COUNSEL ROBERT BURKE, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF PROTECTION SERVICES GEORGE CALISE, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR SUPPORT SERVICES, NA- TIONAL ZOOLOGICAL PARK CHRIS PERATINO, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF AUDITS DOUGLAS EVELYN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMERI- CAN HISTORY INTRODUCTION OF WITNESSES Mr. Yates. Mr. Reporter, show the hearing as coming to order. This is the hearing on the appropriations for 1985—the years go by—for the Smithsonian Institution, the fiscal year 1985. Appear- ing in support of that appropriation is a most formidable team: Mr. Ripley, the Secretary of the Institution; Mr. Hughes, the Under Secretary of the Institution; Mr. Challinor, the Assistant Secretary for Science; Mr. Jameson, Assistant Secretary for Administration and Acting Treasurer. You are searching for a Treasurer? Mr. Hughes. Yes, sir. Mr. Yates. Is there an Acting Treasurer? Mr. Hughes. Yes. Mr. Jameson. Mr. Yates. Have you got a Search Committee out? Mr. Hughes. Yes. Mr. Yates. Really? Mr. Reinhardt, Assistant Secretary for History and Art; Mr. Rinzler, for Public Service; Mr. Richards, Acting Assistant Secre- tary for Museum Programs; and Mr. Peyton, Director of Facilities Services. Hi, Mr. Peyton. How are your roofs these days? Mr. Ripley. I knew we would get to that. Mr. Yates. We will in time. Mr. Wemmer—why are you so far back? Mr. Wemmer. I thought the room was going to be filled. Mr. Yates. I thought you were hiding. Mr. Clarke, Acting Director for the Office of Programming and Budget. We are honored to have Mrs. Ripley with us today. I don't know why you are not on the witness list, Mrs. Ripley, but we are hon- ored, nevertheless, to have you here. All right. Also in attendance—my goodness, it is indeed a formi- dable list—Mr. Walter Boyne, Director of the National Air and Space Museum. Where are you, Mr. Boyne? Mr. Boyne. Here. Mr. Yates. Good. Gretchen Gayle Ellsworth. Isn't that wonderful. Where are you, Gretchen? Ms. Ellsworth. I am all the way back here, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Yates. You are hiding, too. Mr. Fiske. Hi, Mr. Fiske. How are all your gems? Mr. Fiske. Just fine. Mr. Yates. How good are your appraisals these days? Mr. Fiske. I am not in the appraisal business. Mr. Yates. I see. Mr. Klein, Director of the Smithsonian Environmental Research Center. You are from Panama? Mr. Klein. No. Mr. Yates. You are from Chesapeake. What happens to the Panama man? Mr. Robinson, hi. You are from Panama. Mr. Robinson. Right. Mr. Yates. Mr. Shapiro, Director of the Smithsonian Astrophysi- cal Observatory. Where are you down from? Mr. Shapiro. Down from Cambridge. Mr. Yates. Down from Cambridge. It is never up from Cam- bridge, is it? No. Cambridge is up there. That is all Science. Now we have History and Art. Mr. Eldredge— I hope we have some time left for your testimony, Dillon. Mr. Eldredge, Director of American Art. Where are you, Mr. Eldredge? There you are, way back there. Mr. Fern, Director of the National Portrait Gallery. Yes, Mr. Fern, glad to see you. Roger Kennedy, "Old Faithful." Where are you, Roger? There you are quietly raising your hand. Mr. Kinard, Anacostia. There you are. Hi, Mr. Kinard. Mr. Lawton, Hello, in Chinese. Mr. Lerner, Director of the Hirshhorn. Delighted to see you. Last appearance? Mr. Lerner. Yes. Mr. Yates. That is unfortunate. Mr. Murray, Archives of American Art. Hi, Mr. Murray. Lisa Taylor—hi, Lisa—Cooper-Hewitt. Sylvia Williams, National Museum of African Art. I am impressed with this list. You have got many more women on this list than I thought you had. I thought the Smithsonian was a men's club. Mary Grace Potter, Director of Visitor Information. Ms. Potter, where are you? Are you no longer here, Ms. Potter? Mr. Kennedy. She is greeting a visitor. Mr. Yates. She is that wrapped up in her job. She will be here tomorrow. I see. Peggy Loar—where are you, Peggy? Hi—Director of SITES. Mr. Maloy, Director of Smithsonian Institution Libraries. Where are you, Mr. Maloy? He must be the visitor. Mr. Postlethwaite, Acting Director, Conservation Analytical Lab- oratory. Hi, Mr. Postlethwaite. Then Judge Powers. Where are you, Judge? I know, I made your lunch a tragedy, didn't I? Didn't I? I will tell the rest of the crowd why in a few minutes. They will just have to hold themselves in check, temporarily. Robert Burke, Director of the Office of Protection Services. Glad to see you, Mr. Burke. Well, I am delighted. We have Ms. Ellsworth and we have Lisa Taylor, Sylvia Williams, and the absent Ms. Potter, and Peggy Loar. That is pretty good. Dillon, when are you going to graduate one of these women or some other woman to assistant secretaryship? Mr. Ripley. Very soon. Mr. Yates. Will it be in your tenure, or your successors? Mr. Ripley. It is hard to tell. Mr. Yates. Very hard to tell. Okay. You don't have them up there yet, have you? You haven't placed them up there yet, have you, Dillon? Mr. Ripley. No, I have not. Mr. Yates. Is this your swan song, too? Mr. Ripley. This is my last hearing before this committee. Mr. Yates. That is not a swan song, is it, or are you going to be like Anna Pavlova Mr. Ripley. Swans only sing when they are dying. Mr. Yates. At any rate, we are delighted to have you here today. Your statement may be made a part of the record, as soon as we dispose of the biographies of certain of the distinguished newcom- ers to the ranks of the Smithsonian. The biography of Mr. Rinzler may go into the record at this point, to be followed by the biography of Mr. Richards, to be fol- lowed by the biography of Mr. Clarke, to be followed by the biogra- phy of Mr. Robinson, to be followed by the biography of Mr. Murray, and that is it.