House of Commons Energy and Climate Change Committee The Work of the Department of Energy and Climate Change Oral evidence Wednesday 15 September 2010 Rt Hon Chris Huhne MP, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Moira Wallace OBE, Permanent Secretary, DECC, Phil Wynn Owen, Director General, National Climate Change and Consumer Support, and Jonathan Brearley, Director, Energy Strategy and Futures Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed Wednesday 15 September 2010 HC 474-i Published on 16 November 2011 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £5.50 The Energy and Climate Change Committee The Energy and Climate Change Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Department of Energy and Climate Change and associated public bodies. Current membership Mr Tim Yeo MP (Conservative, South Suffolk) (Chair) Dan Byles MP (Conservative, North Warwickshire) Barry Gardiner MP (Labour, Brent North) Ian Lavery MP (Labour, Wansbeck) Dr Phillip Lee MP (Conservative, Bracknell) Albert Owen MP (Labour, Ynys Môn) Christopher Pincher MP (Conservative, Tamworth) John Robertson MP (Labour, Glasgow North West) Laura Sandys MP (Conservative, South Thanet) Sir Robert Smith MP (Liberal Democrat, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) Dr Alan Whitehead MP (Labour, Southampton Test) The following members were also members of the committee during the parliament: Gemma Doyle MP (Labour/Co-operative, West Dunbartonshire) Tom Greatrex MP (Labour, Rutherglen and Hamilton West) Powers The committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publication The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the internet at www.parliament.uk/parliament.uk/ecc. A list of Reports of the Committee in the present Parliament is at the back of this volume. The Report of the Committee, the formal minutes relating to that report, oral evidence taken and some or all written evidence are available in a printed volume. Additional written evidence may be published on the internet only. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Sarah Hartwell-Naguib (Clerk), Dr Richard Benwell (Second Clerk), Dr Michael H. O’Brien (Committee Specialist), Jenny Bird (Committee Specialist), Francene Graham (Senior Committee Assistant), Jonathan Olivier Wright (Committee Assistant), Edward Bolton (Committee Support Assistant) and Nick Davies (Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 2569; the Committee’s email address is [email protected] List of witnesses Wednesday 15 September 2010 Page Rt Hon Chris Huhne MP, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Moira Wallace OBE, Permanent Secretary, Phil Wynn Owen, Director General, National Climate Change and Consumer Support, and Jonathan Brearley, Director, Energy Strategy and Futures, Department of Energy and Climate Change. Ev 1 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [15-11-2011 13:16] Job: 013418 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/013418/013418_o001_db_Corrected EnCC AM 15 September 2010.xml Energy and Climate Change Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Energy and Climate Change Committee on Wednesday 15 September 2010 Members present: Mr Tim Yeo (Chair) Dan Byles Christopher Pincher Gemma Doyle Laura Sandys Tom Greatrex Sir Robert Smith Dr Phillip Lee Dr Alan Whitehead Albert Owen ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Rt Hon Chris Huhne MP, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Moira Wallace, Permanent Secretary, DECC, Phil Wynn Owen, Director General, National Climate Change and Consumer Support, and Jonathan Brearley, Director, Energy Strategy and Futures, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Secretary of State, a very warm welcome Chris Huhne: Yes. to the Committee. This is your first appearance—our Chair: The Committee on Climate Change wrote to first meeting with you. We are delighted to have you. you, I think it was last week, saying that it thought Thank you for making the time. the current renewable energy target was about right, There is a great deal we would like to talk about, but has significant delivery risks. It said the target obviously, and I hope it is going to be a good tour should neither be reduced nor increased. Is that your d’horizon. Congratulations on your appointment view? anyway. I remember you described it to me as your Chris Huhne: Yes. I think that I’m persuaded by the dream job, so I hope it is proving to be a dream and line that the Committee took. I think the 15% is not a nightmare. demanding, given where we are at 3%. We have Chris Huhne: So do I. Thank you very much, Mr inherited the third worst installed rate of renewable Chairman, and congratulations to you too for being capacity in all of the 27 member states of the one of the first of the elected Select Committee European Union. Only Malta and Luxemburg have a Chairs. I think it is a very important development for worse installation rate for renewables than we do. So, Parliament, and I very much look forward to working we have a lot of catching up to do and I’m determined with you as a newly invigorated Committee. I think and very happy to make sure that we are hitting that Ministers are always in favour of tremendous 15% target. There are risks even with that, given that Parliamentary scrutiny in principle. Well, I hope in we are starting so far behind, and there is a lot of practice that it is—and I am sure it will be—very room to catch up. good. It would be nice, and I don’t disguise the fact, clearly, that obviously we asked the Committee to look at Q2 Chair: I think we start off from a pretty revising the target, to see if we could be more supportive position of you and the Department. We ambitious, but I am convinced that it is better to be may be quite critical of some other areas of more certain about meeting what is going to be a very Government policy. I hope we will not have to be too demanding target than, at this stage, to be more confrontational with you because I think we would ambitious on the 2020 15%. like to give you as much support as we can in what is clearly quite a challenging period. Do you want to Q4 Chair: It sounds as though, from what you say, introduce your colleagues, first of all? particularly about the low starting point, that you Chris Huhne: Yes, absolutely. On my right is Moira share that Committee’s view that meeting even an Wallace, who is our Permanent Secretary and not just existing target requires, in its words, “a step change in any old Permanent Secretary, but the founder of the the rate of progress and entails significant risks which Department—so very crucial. On her right is Jonathan should be addressed as a matter of urgency”. Brearley, who is Director on the energy side and who Chris Huhne: I think it does require a step change is deputising today for Simon Virley, who is our and that is exactly what we are intending to do in the Director General, who, unfortunately has had a minor Department. I think the Prime Minister was very clear operation and is recovering from that; and on my left when he made the Department one of the very first is Phil Wynn Owen, who is the Director General in Departments that he visited when we came into charge of climate change and consumer matters. I will Government that we intend to be the greenest attempt to answer all the easy questions and they will Government ever, and part of that commitment is very answer the difficult ones. firmly to meet our renewable energy targets. That is going to mean that we are devoting a lot of attention Q3 Chair: Okay. We will give you lots of easy ones to ensure that we pick up our position from being the to start with. Can we start with renewable energy? laggards of Europe at the moment. cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [15-11-2011 13:16] Job: 013418 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/013418/013418_o001_db_Corrected EnCC AM 15 September 2010.xml Ev 2 Energy and Climate Change Committee: Evidence 15 September 2010 Rt Hon Chris Huhne MP, Moira Wallace, Phil Wynn Owen and Jonathan Brearley Q5 Chair: In the annual energy statement you made Q8 Albert Owen: Just to be clear, that money has just before the House rose, you referred to the delivery not been ring-fenced, the announcement by the plan that you are working on. When is that likely to previous Chancellor? see the light of day? Chris Huhne: There are ring-fenced amounts of Chris Huhne: I am not sure we have a firm deadline money for particular Departments, for example, DFID on that, Jonathan? and Health. Jonathan Brearley: No. Albert Owen: With respect, I understand the general Chris Huhne: Not yet. I think that, as part of the view. I am asking about this announcement. annual energy statement, obviously, we announce Chris Huhne: There is, sadly, nothing ring-fenced work that is ongoing. There are issues, particularly on on that. the planning side, which it is often difficult to predict Albert Owen: That is clear.