First Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections Chairperson Mr. Conrad Santos Constituency of Wellington Vol. L No. 2 - 3 p.m., Thursday, August 3, 2000 ISSN 0713-9543 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK. Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU. David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FILMON, Gary Tuxedo P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE. Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD. Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C NEVAKSHONOFF. Tom Interlake N.D P PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Moms P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Eric Kirkfield Park P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Rob lin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 25 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS Thursday, August 3, 2000 TIME-3 p.m. Mr. Ken Mandzuik, Manitoba Association fo r Rights and Liberties LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba Mr. Dan Overall, Manitoba Chambers of CHAIRPERSON - Mr. Conrad Santos Commerce (Wellington) Mr. Paul Moist, President, Canadian Union ofPublic Employees VICE-CHAIRPERSON Mr. Harry Mr. Victor Vrsnik, Provincial Director, Schellenberg (Rossmere) Canadian Taxpayers Federation Mr. Brian Hanslip, President, Manitoba Party ATTENDANCE - 11 -QUORUM- 6 WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS: Me mbers of the Committee present: Bill 4-The Elections Finances Amendment Hon. Messrs. Ashton, Doer, Hon. Ms. Act Mihychuk Mr. Aaron Freeman, Democracy Watch Messrs. Cummings, Martindale, Mrs. Mitchelson, Messrs. Nevakshonoff, Penner Bill 17-The Elections Amendment Act (Emerson), Reimer, Santos, Schellenberg Mr. Rob Hilliard, President, Manitoba APPEARING: Federation ofLabour Mr. Darren Praznik, MLA for Lac du MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: Bonnet Mr. John Loewen, MLA for Fort Whyte Bill 4-The Elections Finances Amendment Hon. Jon Gerrard, MLA for River Heights Act WITNESSES: Bill 17-The Elections Amendment Act Bill 4-The Elections Finances Amendment * * * Act Mr. Chairperson: Good afternoon. Will the Mr. Bill Hansen, Broadcasters Association Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections of Manitoba please come to order. The first order of business Mr. Bryan Stone, Broadcasters Association before the Committee is the election of a Vice­ of Manitoba Chairperson. Are there any nominations? Mr. David Goldstein, Canadian Association of Broadcasters Mr. Bob Mummery, President, Manitoba Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Community Newspapers Association Chairman, I nominate Mr. Schellenberg, the Mr. Clint Szakacs, Executive Director, Honourable Member for Rossmere. Manitoba Community Newspapers Asso­ ciation Mr. Chairperson: Mr. Schellenberg has been Mr. Paul Nielson, Private Citizen nominated as Vice-Chairperson. Are there any Mr. John Doyle, Manitoba Federation of other nominations? Mr. Schellenberg has been Labour unanimously appointed Vice-Chairperson. 26 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 3, 2000 This afternoon the Committee will be con­ would you please register at the back of the sidering the following bills: Bill 4, The Elections room. Just a reminder that 20 copies of your Finances Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi presentation are required by the Committee. If sur le financement des campagnes electorales, you require assistance with photocopying, please and Bill 17, The Elections Amendment Act; Loi see the Clerk of this committee. I understand that modifiant Ia Loi electorale. we have some out-of-town presenters in attendance this evening. It has been expressed by * (15:20) the Committee to hear the out-of-town presenters first. We have presenters who have registered to Before we proceed with the presentations, is make public presentations on Bill 4, and also on it the will of the Committee to set time limits on Bill 17. It is the custom to hear public presenta­ presentations? tions before consideration of the Bill. Is it the will of the Committee to hear public presenta­ Some Honourable Members: No. tions on the Bill? If yes, in what order do you wish to hear the presenters? Some Honourable Members: Yes. An Honourable Member: Out of town first. Mr. Chairperson: I hear both yes and no. What is the wiii of the Committee? Mr. Chairperson: Is it agreed that out-of-town presenters are firstheard to present? [A greed] Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): I would propose we I will then read the names of the persons have the same limits we have had in other who have registered to make presentations. On committees which have been 15 minutes for Bill 4, out-of-town presenters: Mr. David presentation and 5 minutes fo r questions. Goldstein and Don Kille, Canadian Association of Broadcasters and Broadcasters Association of Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): I believe that Manitoba; by leave, Bryan Stone and Bill there are times in committee when limitations Hansen-in addition to Mr. Goldstein, there will can be set, but I also believe that there are times be Bryan Stone and Bill Hansen, by leave. when there should be unlimited provisions for [A greed] Mr. Paul Nielson, private citizen; Mr. presentation, specifically on issues that are of Rob Hilliard, President, Manitoba Federation of . extreme importance. I think some of these bills Labour; Mr. Ken Mandzuik, Manitoba Associa­ deal with people's rights. This one, especially, tion for Rights and Liberties; Mr. Dan Overall, deals with the very process of the setting of Manitoba Chambers of Commerce; Mr. Paul democracy, establishing democracy. I think fo r Moist, President, Canadian Union of Public that reason this committee should strongly Employees; Mr. Victor Vrsnik, Canadian consider not limiting the presentations on this Taxpayers Federation; Clint Szakacs and Bob very important bill. Mummery, Manitoba Community Newspapers Association. There is also a walk-in, Mr. Brian Mr. Chairperson: We now have two sugges­ Hanslip, President of the Manitoba Party. tions: A time limit of 15 minutes per presenta­ tion and 5 minutes fo r questions, on one hand; On Bill 17, The Elections Amendment Act, and an unlimited presentation time and ques­ we have Mr. Paul Nielson listed there, but he tioning on the other. We may have to �ake a indicated he will be making presentation on Bill . decision as a committee. I need a motiOn m 4 not Bill 17, and Mr. Rob Hilliard, the Presi­ writing. d�nt of Manitoba Federation of Labour, wiii have a written submission on Bill 17 but no Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Chair­ presentation. Those are the persons and the person, I move that there be limits of 15 minutes organizations that have registered so far. fo r presentations and 5 minutes for questiOns._ Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to register or has not yet registered Mr. Chairperson: It has been moved by Mr. and would like to make a presentation? If any, Martindale, that there be a time limit of 15 August 3, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 27 minutes for presentations and 5 minutes for in the Legislature in a co-operative way to fully questions. This is a debatable motion. implement election finance reforms, and I do not think there is any party within the Legislature Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. that would not be committed to that kind of a co­ Chairman, the government members are pro­ operative, consultative process. posing a limitation on the very time that we probably will be hearing people who are Unfortunately, this bill was introduced concerned about whether or not they are going to without that kind of a consultative process that have fu ll access to the rights that we normally was committed to during the election campaign, believe that they should have in democracy, the so we as opposition members of the Legislature right of freedom of speech. have not had the opportunity to provide any dialogue, discussion or consult with any of those Of all the committees that we sit in during in the community that might have been this session and many others in the past, I think interested in having their views heard. So I think this is an example of a bill and a type of debate it is extremely important, given the last minute that we would all be well advised to listen introduction of this legislation and the lack of carefully and to not be limiting the opportunity consultation.