Thursday Volume 504 21 January 2010 No. 28 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday 21 January 2010 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2010 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 417 21 JANUARY 2010 418 Opposition Benches—but will not the real story of House of Commons election night be the fact that possibly up to 50 seats will have been bought by Lord Ashcroft’s money, and what— Thursday 21 January 2010 Mr. Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman knows that he is far exceeding the boundaries of the question; The House met at half-past Ten o’clock it was a good try, but I am afraid it did not work. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): As PRAYERS the hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) said, the key words are as far as “is practicable”. There are constituencies where this is not practicable for [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] geographical reasons, and sometimes simply because of historical practice. What an individual returning officer should not do, however, is delay the count simply because Oral Answers to Questions he thinks that verifying or counting postal votes might be a little bit difficult. That is the message the Electoral Commission needs to send out to returning officers. ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE Mr. Streeter: The hon. Gentleman is right. Throughout our history, several seats at every general election have counted on a Friday; I am sure colleagues on the The hon. Member for South-West Devon, representing Opposition Benches will be interested to know that in the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, 1979 121 seats counted on a Friday. The hon. Gentleman was asked— makes an important point, and the Electoral Commission has encouraged returning officers to be clear about why General Election Counts they are making this decision, and be able to justify it to their local community. 1. Mr. David Amess (Southend, West) (Con): Whether the Electoral Commission has had discussions with (a) media organisations and (b) political parties CHURCH COMMISSIONERS on the timing of the election counts for the general election. [312126] The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon): The Electoral Church Commissioners, was asked— Commission informs me that it had discussions with the BBC about the timing of election counts in September Wireless Audio Equipment 2009. The commission further informs me that the timing of election counts was discussed with representatives 2. Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): What steps the of the political parties who attended the October 2009 Church Commissioners are taking to assist cathedrals meeting of the parliamentary parties panel. and parish churches to retune or replace wireless audio equipment which operates on frequencies within Mr. Amess: Recalling my re-election to Parliament in Channel 69 following the clearance of that channel by 1992, when the count was completed within an hour of Ofcom. [312127] the close of poll—I am advised that the result indicated that there would be the re-election of a Conservative The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Government, and financial stability—does my hon. Friend Bell): With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like agree that we should continue with the tradition of to refer to David Taylor. As you know, he was an counting immediately after the close of poll, in order to assiduous attender at our Question Time. He put pertinent bring financial stability and reduce the possibility of and important questions before the House and assisted electoral fraud? our Ecclesiastical Committee, and he will be greatly missed. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] Mr. Streeter: That is, of course, my personal opinion, I can tell the hon. Member for Salisbury (Robert but as the House knows full well, whether to count Key) that the Church of England has joined an industry-led votes on Thursday or Friday is a matter for individual campaign to press the Government for compensation returning officers; that has been our law for more than for affected groups. We are encouraging churches to 100 years. However, the law does require returning contact their installation companies for advice and to officers to count votes as soon as is practicable after the seek a compensation package. election. The Electoral Commission website indicates which returning officers have so far decided to count on Robert Key: The Government are making hundreds the Friday or are undecided, and I encourage hon. of millions of pounds out of the spectrum auctions, Members in those areas to enter into a dialogue with and as the hon. Gentleman has said, some compensation the returning officer to discuss whether their decision has been promised. This affects not only churches, meets that criterion. cathedrals and voluntary organisations, but organisations right across the creative arts. Should not any compensation Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): We all include not only the residual value of equipment but welcomed your statement on this issue, Mr. Speaker, replacement value, as churches have been forced off and I completely agree with what has been said from the those frequencies by the Government? 419 Oral Answers21 JANUARY 2010 Oral Answers 420 Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman on a Thursday unless there are exceptional circumstances for raising this issue. The compensation package takes and tin-pot, upstart little town clerks cannot change into account the full cost of the significant disruption, things? particularly to larger churches that use a number of wireless microphones. I estimate that about one in eight Mr. Streeter: I wish my hon. Friend would say what churches will need to retune or replace their equipment, he really feels! When the Electoral Commission was set at an average cost of about £500. The Government up the House did not give it the power to direct returning agree with Ofcom that compensation is due, but the officers, and of course, if the law is to be changed that is level, and eligibility, still need to be agreed. a matter for this House, not for the Electoral Commission. As we know, returning officers are usually the chief Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con): May I tell the executives of local authorities, and Members of Parliament hon. Gentleman how much I welcomed support from and councillors up and down the land are usually not the Church of England this week for early-day motion without influence in working alongside these hard-working 323, in my name and those of 131 other Members? I and respectable individuals. urge him to use all the resources of the Church Commissioners to put the maximum possible pressure Mr. Swayne: The New Forest constituencies will be on the Treasury and the Secretary of State for Business, doing the right thing, but I hope that the only present Innovation and Skills to ensure that justice is done in occupant of the Treasury Bench, the duty Whip, will this very important matter. have noted the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Bone). We all appear to be in Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, agreement that either we are going to do something and I have read his early-day motion 323 on the Save about this or we are not, and we are just going to hope. our Sound UK campaign. I agree with his point. The Perhaps someone on the Treasury Bench could give Government recognise the importance of churches in some instruction as to the meaning of the law: what our communities, and I am sure they will recognise that does “as soon as is practicable” actually mean? this is an unfortunate anomaly, as they did in relation to our unfair surface water charges last year. I urged the Mr. Streeter: My hon. Friend makes an extremely Government to respond robustly then, and I do so now, important point. It is to be hoped that the guidance that with the support of the House. has been given from this House in recent days, including your own very powerful statement on this matter, Mr. Speaker, will influence the 187 returning officers who have not yet decided to take the view that counting ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE on Thursday is the right thing to do. This is not a matter for the Electoral Commission. The hon. Member for South-West Devon, representing Mr. MacShane rose— the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked— Mr. Speaker: I shall give the right hon. Gentleman a General Election Counts second bite at the cherry, but I do not expect him to abuse the bite. 3. Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): What estimate the Electoral Commission has made of the number Mr. MacShane: My understanding is that if a question of general election counts which will commence on contains a reference to an organisation—[Interruption.] polling day. [312128] No, no, let me ask my question first, and Mr. Speaker may then rule me out of order. May I ask the hon. 6. Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): Member representing the Speaker’s Committee on the What estimate the Electoral Commission has made of Electoral Commission what conversations he has had the number of general election counts which will with the Electoral Commission, not only on the counting commence on polling day. [312131] of votes, which is so essential, but on the counting of the money that will be used to buy those votes? Mr.