PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee DIGITAL ECONOMY BILL First Sitting Tuesday 11 October 2016 (Morning) CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Motion to sit in private agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. Examination of witnesses. Adjourned till this day at Two o’clock. PBC (Bill 045) 2016 - 2017 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 15 October 2016 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2016 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee 11 OCTOBER 2016 Digital Economy Bill 2 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: MR GARY STREETER,†GRAHAM STRINGER † Adams, Nigel (Selby and Ainsty) (Con) † Mann, Scott (North Cornwall) (Con) † Brennan, Kevin (Cardiff West) (Lab) † Matheson, Christian (City of Chester) (Lab) † Davies, Mims (Eastleigh) (Con) † Menzies, Mark (Fylde) (Con) † Debbonaire, Thangam (Bristol West) (Lab) † Perry, Claire (Devizes) (Con) † Foxcroft, Vicky (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab) Siddiq, Tulip (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab) † Haigh, Louise (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab) † Skidmore, Chris (Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office) † Hancock, Matt (Minister for Digital and Culture) † Stuart, Graham (Beverley and Holderness) (Con) † Hendry, Drew (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and † Sunak, Rishi (Richmond (Yorks)) (Con) Strathspey) (SNP) † Huddleston, Nigel (Mid Worcestershire) (Con) Marek Kubala, Committee Clerk † Kerr, Calum (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (SNP) † attended the Committee Witnesses Sean Williams, Managing Director, Strategy, Portfolio, Legal and Regulatory Services, BT Group Baroness Harding of Winscombe, Chief Executive Officer, TalkTalk David Dyson, Chief Executive Officer, Three David Wheedon, Director of Policy and Public Affairs, Sky Daniel Butler, Head of Public Affairs, Virgin Media Paul Morris, Head of Public Affairs and Sustainability, Vodafone Pete Moorey, Head of Campaigns, Which? James Legge, Head of Political Affairs, Countryside Alliance Jeni Tennison, CEO, Open Data Institute Mike Bracken, Chief Digital Officer, Co-operative Group 3 Public Bill Committee HOUSE OF COMMONS Digital Economy Bill 4 Public Bill Committee Date Time Witness Thursday Until no later StepChange 131 October than 12.00pm Citizens Advice Tuesday 11 October 2016 Dr Jerry Fishenden Thursday Until no later OFCOM (Morning) 131 October than 12.30pm Thursday Until no later The Information 131 October than 1.00pm Commissioner’s Office [GRAHAM STRINGER in the Chair] (3) proceedings on consideration of the Bill in Committee Digital Economy Bill shall be taken in the following order: Clauses 1 to 4; Schedules 1 to 3; Clauses 5 to 84; new Clauses; new Schedules; remaining proceedings on the Bill; 9.25 am (4) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) The Chair: Before we begin, I have a few preliminary be brought to a conclusion at 5.00pm on Thursday 27 October. points. Please switch electronic devices to silent. Tea —(Matt Hancock.) and coffee are not allowed during sittings. Today, we will consider the programme motion on the amendment The Chair: On the basis of the motion, the deadline paper. We will then consider a motion to allow us to for amendments to be considered at the first line-by-line deliberate in private about our questions before the oral sitting of the Committee on 18 October is the rise of the evidence sessions, and a motion to enable the reporting House on Thursday 13 October. of written evidence for publication. In view of the time available, I hope we can take those matters formally, Resolved, without debate. That, at this and any subsequent meeting at which oral evidence is to be heard, the Committee shall sit in private until the Ordered, witnesses are admitted.—(Matt Hancock.) That— Resolved, (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence 9.25am on Tuesday 11 October) meet— received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for (a) at 2.00pm on Tuesday 11 October; publication.—(Matt Hancock.) (b) at 11.30am on Thursday 13 October; (c) at 9.25am and 2.00pm on Tuesday 18 October; The Chair: Copies of the written evidence that the (d) at 11.30am and 2.00pm on Thursday 20 October; Committee receives will be made available in the Committee (e) at 9.25am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 25 October; Room. We will now go into private session to discuss (f) at 11.30am and 2.00pm on Thursday 27 October; lines of questioning. (2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with the following Table: 9.27 am The Committee deliberated in private. Date Time Witness Tuesday Until no later BT/EE Examination of Witnesses 11 October than 10.00am TalkTalk Three David Dyson, Baroness Harding of Winscombe and Sean Williams gave evidence. Tuesday Until no later Sky 11 October than 10.30am Virgin Vodafone 9.32 am Tuesday Until no later Which? The Chair: Welcome to the Digital Economy Bill 11 October than 11.00am Countryside Alliance Committee. We will now hear evidence from BT/EE, Tuesday Until no later Open Data Institute 11 October than 11.25am The Co-operative Group TalkTalk and Three. Before calling the first person to Tuesday Until no later The British Board of ask a question, I should like to remind all Committee 11 October than 2.45pm Film members that questions should be limited to matters Classification within the scope of the Bill and that we must stick to the NSPCC timings in the programme motion that the Committee Tuesday Until no later Dr Edgar Whitley, has agreed. We have until 10 am for this session, so I ask 11 October than 3.00pm London Members and witnesses to be as concise and to the School of Economics point as they can be. Wireless Infrastructure Group Tuesday Until no later Big Brother Watch Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): Mr Stringer, 11 October than 4.00pm Open Rights Group may I put on the record and bring the Committee’s Tuesday Until no later ProjectsbyIF attention to my declaration of interest? I am a director 11 October than 4.30pm Open Corporates of two telecommunications companies and a shareholder TUC in both; my wife is a shareholder in those companies as Tuesday Until no later Professor Sir Charles well. 11 October than 5.00pm Bean, London School of Economics Q1 The Chair: That is now on the record. Does The Royal Statistical anyone else wish to declare an interest? No. Could the Society witnesses please introduce themselves for the record? 5 Public Bill Committee 11 OCTOBER 2016 Digital Economy Bill 6 David Dyson: David Dyson. I am the CEO of Three willing to come forward to deal with the last 500 houses UK. in the Devizes constituency? What should happen then? Baroness Harding: Dido Harding, chief executive of TalkTalk. The Chair: The acoustics in the room are terrible. If Sean Williams: Sean Williams, chief strategy officer Members and witnesses could really speak up, that at BT Group. would be very helpful. Sean Williams: To answer from our perspective, we Q2 Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab): Thank are willing to enter into a binding legal commitment you for coming to give evidence today. May I start with that we will deliver at least 10 megabit broadband to you, Sean? First, do you think that 2020 and 10 megabits 100% of premises by the end of 2020. Our objective per second are sufficiently ambitious targets for the with this is really to give the Government and Ofcom universal service obligation? comfort that we can get on and do this. Sean Williams: Yes, I do. We have made clear our I would emphasise that I think that there is a lot of willingness to deliver 10 megabits to every premises in competition, as the Baroness just mentioned. We have the country by the end of 2020 without any further Virgin expanding their network, we have Gigaclear and public funding and without even really progressing the Hyperoptic expanding their network and we have the USO regulations. On the way to doing that, we will be mobile operators expanding networks that can deliver building on the fact that by the end of next year we 10 megabit broadband by 4G. There is a lot of competition should have fibre broadband coverage to 95% of the to deliver this. For our part, we are willing to undertake country. to make sure that every single premises can get 10 megabits As we get towards 2020, we will be building further by the end of 2020. fibre networks, so we expect to be getting more than Baroness Harding: The MP for Devizes raised a very 24 megabits to 97% or 98% of the country, and then good question. I am a firm believer that competition fixed broadband of 10 megabits to 99%. We think that will do the majority of this, and we should try our the last 1% needs to be done by 4G and satellite. damnedest to make the private sector fund most of this Although we think about the issue as getting 10 megabits through competition, but I think there is a fair chance by 2020, in our view the vast majority will actually be that in three or four years’ time a number of your getting a lot more than 10 megabits by then. constituents will not have broadband that they think is good enough. Q3 Louise Haigh: Baroness Harding, should the USO I promise that I will not take up the whole session on not have been an open tender process? If it had been, this, but I think that the solution is to separate Openreach would it not have been right for it to have gone to more completely and put a universal service obligation on an than one contractor, given the differences between the independent Openreach.