Wednesday Volume 676 20 May 2020 No. 61 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 20 May 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 555 20 MAY 2020 556 Chris Law [V]: At last week’sScottish Affairs Committee House of Commons sitting, the Secretary of State made the welcome admission that the Prime Minister’s announcement on exiting Wednesday 20 May 2020 lockdown did cause confusion, given that the advice applied only to England. The crystal-clear message in Scotland remains to stay at home, protect the NHS and The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock save lives. In that same spirit, will the Secretary of State accept that prematurely ending the modern ways in which we are currently working in Parliament would PRAYERS disregard Scotland’s clear public health guidance, increase infection in our communities and put our constituents [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] at risk by forcing people to travel hundreds of miles The House entered into hybrid scrutiny proceedings back and forth to London? (Order, 21 April). [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] Mr Jack: I have already given the answer on the first point. On the messaging, the messaging in Scotland is different to that in England, which is fine, but the “stay alert” message in England is that people should stay at Oral Answers to Questions home and work from home if they can work from home, but if they cannot, they can go to work. That is very clear. In going to work, they stay alert, wash their hands and socially distance themselves—they do all SCOTLAND those things. If Scottish Members of Parliament do not want to come back to be scrutinised or to scrutinise The Secretary of State was asked— Ministers, that will be a matter for them, but at some point we will have to move to a stage where Parliament Covid-19: Discussions with Scottish Government is operating on a virtual and covid-safe basis, and that is exactly as it should be. Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP): What recent discussions he has had with the Scottish Mr Speaker: I welcome the shadow Secretary of State Government on the covid-19 outbreak. [902836] for the first of his two questions from the Front Bench. Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP): What recent discussions Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): That is very he has had with the Scottish Government on the covid-19 kind of you, Mr Speaker; thank you very much indeed. outbreak. [902837] The Secretary of State will be aware of the February outbreak of covid-19 at an international Nike conference The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack): in central Edinburgh. In a catastrophic error of judgment, I regularly attend cross-Government meetings, which the Scottish Government decided that the Scottish public include the devolved Administrations, to discuss how to would not be informed, despite that being contrary to minimise the impact of covid-19. There is a high level of Scottish public health legislation. The public could have co-operation between all Administrations and there will helped with the tracing and used their own common continue to be. Weare committed to a UK-wide approach, sense, as the Prime Minister has said, to make choices as we have been from the start. about attending large events and gatherings. A BBC documentary reported that a lockdown then could have Allan Dorans [V]: What justification does the Secretary saved 2,000 Scottish lives. Will the Secretary of State tell of State have for ignoring the Scottish Government the House whether the UK Government were informed; guidelines to stay home, protect the NHS and save why the public were not told, given the subsequent lives, by undertaking an almost 700-mile round trip to disinfecting and closure of Nike outlets all over the Westminster when he could safely have worked from UK; and how many UK lives could have been saved as a home today virtually? What kind of message does that result? send to the Scottish people? Will the Secretary of State be self-isolating on his return to his constituency? Mr Jack: I welcome the hon. Gentleman back to his Mr Jack: To be absolutely clear, first, as the hon. rightful place on the Opposition Front Bench. I fear he Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member for Perth and spent far too long in the wilderness that was the previous North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), has made clear,Members regime’s Back Benches. That said, I must pay tribute to of Parliament are key workers. More importantly, as a his predecessor, the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Cabinet Minister and a Secretary of State, it is right Lloyd), who I am pleased is making good progress in that I should be here in the Chamber so that I can be recovering from a very nasty bout of coronavirus. properly scrutinised and answer these questions. I came On the shadow Secretary of State’s question, I believe down at the weekend and travelled on a train very that maximum transparency is important when it comes safely. I will return safely and I will be isolating myself to matters of public health, because it is important that when I do, but that is solely because I go back to family. we treat the public as adults. To that end, I wish to make I do not see why we cannot have proper scrutiny of it clear that the Scottish Government informed Public Parliament when we have the virtual proceedings, which Health England—an agency, as Members know—of work for some, but for me it is absolutely about being one case of covid-19 on 2 March and two further cases here, being scrutinised and being at the Dispatch Box. on 4 March. I should also make it absolutely clear at the 557 Oral Answers 20 MAY 2020 Oral Answers 558 Dispatch Box that the chief medical officers of the four Mr Jack: This is the first time that the hon. Lady and nations agreed, before there were any confirmed cases, I have met, in virtual circumstances, and I welcome her that each Administration would announce their own to her role. The answer is one for the Chancellor. That is cases and take their own decisions about what was a matter for the Treasury. appropriate to release and when they released it, so it is a matter for the Scottish Government and how they Mhairi Black: If this Parliament insists on following handled it. a policy of England’s way or no way and does not leave any leeway for the devolved nations, will the Secretary of State, as Scotland’s representative in Government, Ian Murray: I accept that response from the Secretary lobby the Prime Minister for the devolution of the fiscal of State, but the UK Government did have a responsibility, powers necessary for the Scottish Government to implement given that Nike outlets across the United Kingdom their own furlough scheme? were closed and disinfected. I thank the Secretary of State for his welcome and for Mr Jack: This is not the time for the Scottish fiscal what he said about my hon. Friend the Member for framework to be opened up and looked at again. The Rochdale (Tony Lloyd), whom I spoke to shortly after UK Government have given huge support to the whole being appointed; he is back and fit, with his old sense of United Kingdom through the furlough scheme, the humour—he has not lost that, thankfully. My hon. self-employed scheme, the bounce-back loans and the Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) and I coronavirus business interruption loan scheme. There will work closely with the Government when they agree has been a huge package of measures to keep money in with us, but we will be a ferocious Opposition when we people’s pockets and to keep the economy as strong as it disagree. We should work collaboratively when we agree, can be when we return to something near normal. Have but we will be ferocious when we do not. I argued Scotland’s case? Yes, I have. We have an In advance of a vaccine, the only way to ease lockdown extension coming on 1 August, running to 31 October. I measures is to test, trace, track and isolate. The key to hope that we can get people back to work over that that process is mass testing. Given that the UK Government period and get the economy up and running, to save consistently fail to hit their 100,000 a day target, and people’s livelihoods. While we are very focused on saving Scotland has one of the worst testing rates in the whole people’s lives, we must remember that after that comes world, we need mobilisation of both Governments saving their livelihoods. to have testing centres everywhere—mobile, workplace, home testing, in airports and so on—to make this Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]: strategy work. A “go it alone” policy, encouraged It is so disappointing to see the Secretary of State and by the Prime Minister’s clumsy announcements, is his “better together” shadow in the House of Commons counterproductive. What work is going on across both in London today. Their Government are telling them to Governments to ensure not only that the capacity of stay at home and not to travel unnecessarily, but there testing is exponentially increased, but that there is a they are in the House of Commons today.