Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley Oral History Center University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California Steve Daetz Steve Daetz: Values and Leadership at Golden West Financial and the Sandler Foundation The Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project Interviews conducted by Martin Meeker in 2018 Copyright © 2019 by The Regents of the University of California Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley ii Since 1954 the Oral History Center of the Bancroft Library, formerly the Regional Oral History Office, has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Steve Daetz dated April 23, 2018. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Excerpts up to 1000 words from this interview may be quoted for publication without seeking permission as long as the use is non-commercial and properly cited. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to The Bancroft Library, Head of Public Services, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should follow instructions available online at http://ucblib.link/OHC-rights. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Steve Daetz, “Steve Daetz: Values and Leadership at Golden West Financial and the Sandler Foundation,” Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project, conducted by Martin Meeker in 2018, Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2019. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iii Steve Daetz Photo courtesy of the Sandler Foundation Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iv Steve Daetz has served as the executive vice president of Sandler Foundation since 2007. Before this position, he was an associate with the law firm of Cooley Godward from 1997 to 2002 and then associate general counsel with Golden West Financial from 2002 to 2007. In this interview, Daetz discusses the following topics: law school education and early career as an attorney; working as associate general counsel at Golden West under Mike Roster; getting to know Herb and Marion Sandler while at Golden West; the sale of Golden West to Wachovia; the expansion of the Sandlers’ philanthropic work; the goals and initiatives of the Sandler Foundation; issues currently facing foundations; measuring impact and working with agencies. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley v Table of Contents — Steve Daetz Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project History by Martin Meeker vii List of Interviews of the Marion and Herbert Sandler Oral History Project xi Interview 1: January 26, 2018 Hour 1 1 Born February 20, 1970 in Palo Alto, California — Class of ’88 at Homestead High School — Went to Boalt Hall, Berkeley’s law school — Sensing that big-firm litigation was not for him — Liking the idea of helping startup companies grow — Energy and drive at the law firm, Cooley Godward — Developing an interest in Golden West — Recalling first time meeting Herb Sandler at Golden West — Mike Roster: “Bring your all into something. Bring your judgment and ask questions” — Golden West’s success attributed to avoiding mistakes — Employees understood what their contribution was to the business model — Business model works with strong capital, low loan losses, and low expenses — Business attracted and retained people who appreciated how the company was well-run and managed — Never having to discipline the CEOs on questionable ethical decisions — Company’s high standards for quality — Insistence on transparency on internal and external reporting — Value of clear, analytical reports — Marion’s role in the branch operations — Herb and Marion’s well-functioning professional relationship — Ability of Herb and Marion to be open with regulators — Focus on the long-term performance of the company — Ways in which the company could’ve made additional short-term profits — “The company tried to do right by others” — Concerted efforts to involve the next generation of leaders in decisions and big issues Hour 2 15 Working on the sale of Golden West — Difficulty during the transition period — Notable differences between Wachovia and Golden West — Misgivings during the merger process — Being scapegoated for the company’s losses after the merge — Creating environment for employees to articulate their perceptions — Difficulty in protecting the reputation of the company and Herb’s integrity — “Golden West is not a household name” — Thoughts on how mortgage crisis was not a product of the losses of Golden West — Thoughts on how making products more attractive in the short term created more risk for borrowers — Reflecting on the excellent management team at Golden West — Monitoring loans very closely — Herb’s pride in lending to people who did not have access to high-quality loan products Interview 2: March 5, 2018 Hour 1 26 Limited exposure to the Sandlers’ philanthropic passions during early years at Golden West — Golden West being run differently than most other banks — The political beliefs Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vi of the Sandlers’ mixing well with Daetz’s beliefs — High standard of work being the biggest focus in Golden West — Being approached by Herb regarding becoming involved in the family’s philanthropy — Perception of Marion being that she had a very tough exterior — Getting to see “the other side of Marion” through philanthropy — Herb and Marion wanting to dedicate their lives to philanthropy after selling Golden West — First time meeting Susan and Jim — Herb and Marion’s philanthropic philosophy and motivation closely aligning with their business philosophy — Focus on strategic vision and strategic planning — Being hired to the Sandler Foundation in 2007 — Interviewing with the Sandlers — The transition from a large company to a small family foundation — The foundation lacking the collegial interactions that Daetz enjoyed at Golden West — Foundation’s response to the financial crisis of 2008 — Daetz’s role within the large environmental giving of the foundation — Methods of communication between the executives at the foundation — Frequent meeting between Herb and Daetz — Informal meetings are very common — Not feeling a pressure to keep up with other foundations that work on the same issues — Forming valuable relationships with other foundations — Different startups by the Sandler Foundation — Deciding who to fund in the early years of the foundation — Herb and Marion’s differing emphases Hour 2 42 Prospects of being more vocal and having a more progressive tone in ProPublica — Good use of time to think through decisions clearly in the foundation — Not operating at a higher scale of intelligence, but a higher accumulation of knowledge through years of experience — Marion’s vision for the future of the foundation — Competition among foundations — Different approaches of various foundations — Establishing a new field in a sector that already existed — Engaging with other foundation leaders — How to “evaluate” a foundation — When organizations aren’t meeting the foundation’s expectations — Reorganizing funding within the foundation — “Tomorrow we grieve; next week, we fight” — The beautiful love story between Marion and Herb — How the company aligned with the Sandler values — Being “the oddball” in the banking industry, along with Herb — Family dynamics of the Sandler family — Herb being Marion’s caregiver when her health began deteriorating — Marion’s strength during her failing health — “Amazing life stories” of the Sandlers Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vii Project History: the Marion and Herb Sandler Oral History Project Herb Sandler and Marion Osher Sandler formed one of the most remarkable partnerships in the histories of American business and philanthropy—and, if their friends and associates would have a say in things, in the living memory of marriage writ large. This oral history project documents the lives of Herb and Marion Sandler through their shared pursuits in raising a family, serving as co-CEOs for the savings and loan Golden West Financial,