Print Page - Cockfighting loan http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3447.0 Kiva Friends KivaFriends.org => Kiva Friends => Topic started by: CESOus on May 09, 2009, 10:44:18 PM Title: Cockfighting loan Post by: CESOus on May 09, 2009, 10:44:18 PM I just read that the loan to William in Peru to raise cocks for fighting purposes has been "refunded" by Kiva. What exactly does that mean? Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Diane R on May 09, 2009, 10:58:43 PM Kiva did not refund the loan, the local microlending agency, FINCA Peru, chose to refund any lenders who had financed this loan, and to pull it from funding on the Kiva.o website. We have no information on what this means in a practical sense. In all likelihood, since MFIs are required to source 70% of their funds from non-Kiva sources, probably received his funding through FINCA Peru from another non-Kiva source. --Diane. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: CESOus on May 09, 2009, 11:03:50 PM OK, thanks. That was informative. I found offering cockfighting as an entrepreneurial endeavor to be supported through Kiva highly offensive. Being sensitive to the preferences of various cultures is one thing, but extending that to encouraging cruelty to animals, as through cockfighting, regardless of the cultural milieu, is simply not acceptable. Let those who want loans for cockfighting find their money somewhere other than through Kiva, please. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: TheTatiana on May 10, 2009, 01:57:35 AM I think I agree with this but would put it differently. I think if kiva is willing to fund loans that involve cockfighting, I will be repulsed enough that I most likely won't want to be associated with kiva anymore. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: mungo on May 11, 2009, 01:50:57 PM There was a whole lot of todo about this loan last week. Lots of discussion and debate, ranging from the inflammatory to the icy logical. I'll be curious to see how this is addressed in future. In the meanwhile, I started a team called KACL (Kivans Against Cockfighting Loans) (http://www.kiva.org/team/kacl purpose of the team is simply this - to help Kiva quantify how many of their Lenders (that are aware of the issue) disagree with the listing of these loans, for whatever Ideological differences aside, I believe a number of us think loans of this nature should not be listed, and by joining this team (membership is open) we can help Kiva ge for how many lenders disagree with the listing of these loans. For the record : I'm not your animal rights guy. This team isn't about larger issues. It's just a way to be counted. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Jane Sladen on May 11, 2009, 04:53:53 PM Recent news from Finca: Quote We have decided to not post any stories that could be culturally sensitive in certain parts of the world. If you have additional questions, please let me know. Viviana. Viviana Salinas Lanao Gerente de Soluciones para el Desarrollo Humano FINCA Peru Telefono: 511-222-9220 Jane Sladen. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Diane R on May 11, 2009, 05:04:23 PM Jane, where is that "recent news" from, and what does it mean? (What does she mean by "stories"?) --Diane. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Jan & John on May 11, 2009, 05:41:45 PM Quote from: Jane Sladen on May 11, 2009, 04:53:53 PM Recent news from Finca: Viviana Salinas Lanao Gerente de Soluciones para el Desarrollo Humano FINCA Peru Telefono: 511-222-9220 Jane Sladen. That statement kind of turns the tables... not only are we worried about interfering in 'cultural issues' in the borrowers country... the MFI appears to be worried about 'the lenders cultural issues' kind of makes me blink - twice. jan 8) Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: CESOus on May 11, 2009, 05:58:50 PM It would be helpful to me to understand all this. What is MFI? Maybe I'm missing something here (perhaps missing a lot), but it seems to me that cultural sensitivity on of BOTH the lender and borrower might not be a bad thing. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Ginni on May 11, 2009, 06:04:56 PM That's why Finca Peru (the mfi, or microfinance institute) pulled the cockfighting loan, isn't it? Concern over lender (our) cultural sensitivity? In my opinion, that was a great 1 of 61 03/02/2012 18:56 Print Page - Cockfighting loan http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3447.0 thing for them to do. Some people made a loan to another of their clients right away, and others of us will keep them in mind when we lend again, instead of possibly cros their clients off our list because of this issue. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: Sengbe Pieh on May 11, 2009, 06:08:30 PM The following was posted by Kristin on both the Animal Lovers & the Vegans for Global Harmony teams message boards: This is a letter below from FincaPeru: (notice the very bottom where they said they would not post anymore loans like this) Dear Kristin, Thank you very much for your emails. On Friday afternoon, Kiva took off the story that you mentioned. This is what Kiva posted: Kiva’s field partner, FINCA Peru, has decided to refund this loan. Here are is reason why, in their own words: The story posted was from a young man, William, whose business is raising roosters for cockfights in Ayacucho. Cockfighting is legal in Peru. We understand and are sensit some of the Kiva community’s opinions and criticisms regarding the use of this loan, which is why we have decided to ask Kiva to refund it, even though it has already bee funded on the website. We would also like to share a bit more about FINCA Peru. We are the pioneer in the village banking methodology in Peru and have been working in Lima, Ayacucho and Huancavelica since 1993. We work with over 12,300 microentrepreneurs, 93% are women, most of them mothers, and 25% are in rural areas where there are few to none financial services offered. As you may see, William’s story is more of an exception than the average story of our wonderful clients. Kind regards, FINCA Peru We have decided to not post any stories that could be culturally sensitive in certain parts of the world. If you have additional questions, please let me know. Viviana Posted by Kristin May 10, 2009 - 3:12 pm PDT Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: mungo on May 11, 2009, 06:48:40 PM Quote from: Jan & John on May 11, 2009, 05:41:45 PM That statement kind of turns the tables... not only are we worried about interfering in 'cultural issues' in the borrowers country... the MFI appears to be worried about 'the lenders cultural issues' kind of makes me blink - twice. I have to admit, this has me thinking. I initially indicated that I thought the MFI was using Good Judgment in pulling the loan, and I still believe that. But I'm less familiar with the MFIs than most, so maybe someone can enlighten me - are they well positioned to determine what loans may be culturally sensitive in certain parts of the world? And even if they are, is that a good tacti MFI to filter their own loans based on their knowledge and understanding of different cultures? Versus Kiva filtering out loans based on their knowledge and understandin their own lenders? I believe that Kiva is more likely to be in a good position to determine what loans shouldn't be listed. It's not that I don't appreciate the actions of the MFI in this case, I just think the burden of responsibility should shift to the party best suited to address the problem, and most likely to be negatively impacted by it. I still think that's Kiva. But this all does have me thinking. Title: Re: Cockfighting loan Post by: tomviolence on May 11, 2009, 07:17:44 PM "Self Censorship" - by the Medium (Kiva), the Source (MFI), or Audience (Lenders) - I really think that if Kiva becomes the filter, we start down that primrose path where some group somewhere will not be happy with whatever the loans being offered are an want them removed. No farm animals, no agriculture with pesticides, no cars or motorcycles unless hybrid powered, no alcohol sales, ice cream is fattening, paper for scho children should be at least 80% post consumer recycled, etc. And when Kiva offers no loans, I will complain. If the source (MFI) discovers certain loans do not do well or cause problems getting other loans funded, they might stop posting those loans. But this does require people the offering, give feedback, and the MFI act on it. Finally, the Audience. There are over 700 loans posting right now. The choice is yours. I understand some people loan with out an in depth analysis of the offering, and sometimes the "blurb" is not clear. I think it is very very important to realize the rest of the world is not 2009 america, and 2008 america DID have legal cockfighting. Not that this makes blood sports great or wonderful, or to be encouraged, but is it really a litm on whether Kiva should be supported or not ? I guess everybody has a make or break point, and perhaps this is it for some - not for me though.