COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA Proof Committee Hansard JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON NORTHERN AUSTRALIA Destruction of 46,000-year-old caves at the Juukan Gorge (Public) FRIDAY, 28 AUGUST 2020 CANBERRA CONDITIONS OF DISTRIBUTION This is an uncorrected proof of evidence taken before the committee. It is made available under the condition that it is recognised as such. BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES [PROOF COPY] INTERNET Hansard transcripts of public hearings are made available on the internet when authorised by the committee. To search the parliamentary database, go to: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON NORTHERN AUSTRALIA Friday, 28 August 2020 Members in attendance: Senators Canavan, Chisholm, Dodson, Siewert, Dean Smith and Mr Christensen, Mr Entsch, Mr Snowdon, Ms Wells. Terms of Reference for the Inquiry: To inquire into and report on: The Joint Standing Committee on Northern Australia will inquire into and report on, by 30 September 2020: The destruction of 46,000 year old caves at the Juukan Gorge in the Pilbara region of Western Australia with particular reference to: (a) the operation of the Aboriginal Heritage Act 1972 (WA) and approvals provided under the Act; (b) the consultation that Rio Tinto engaged in prior to the destruction of the caves with Indigenous peoples; (c) the sequence of events and decision-making process undertaken by Rio Tinto that led to the destruction; (d) the loss or damage to the Traditional Owners, Puutu, Kunti Kurrama and Pinikura people, from the destruction of the site; (e) the heritage and preservation work that has been conducted at the site; (f) the interaction, of state indigenous heritage regulations with Commonwealth laws; (g) the effectiveness and adequacy of state and federal laws in relation to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultural heritage in each of the Australian jurisdictions; (h) how Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultural heritage laws might be improved to guarantee the protection of culturally and historically significant sites; (i) opportunities to improve indigenous heritage protection through the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999; and (j) any other related matters. WITNESSES COCHRANE, Professor Glynn, Private capacity ................................................................................................. 1 DAVIDSON, Ms Louise, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Council of Superannuation Investors ........... 33 EDMUNDS, Dr Mary, Private Capacity ................................................................................................................ 7 FARMER, Mr Melvin, Chairperson, Western Desert Lands Aboriginal Corporation................................... 40 HARVEY, Mr Bruce, Private capacity ................................................................................................................ 18 JOHN, Mr Edward, Executive Manager, Governance Engagement and Policy, Australian Council of Superannuation Investors ........................................................................................... 33 LANGTON, Dr Marcia, Private capacity ............................................................................................................ 26 LOWE, Mr Jamie, Chief Executive Officer, National Native Title Council ..................................................... 40 MUIR, Mr Kado, Deputy Chair, National Native Title Council ....................................................................... 40 STRELEIN, Dr Lisa, Executive Director, Research and Education, Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies ......................................................... 12 SWEENEY, Mr Austin, Director of Legal Policy, National Native Title Council ........................................... 40 Friday, 28 August 2020 JOINT Page 1 COCHRANE, Professor Glynn, Private capacity Committee met at 8:03 CHAIR (Mr Entsch): I declare this public hearing of the Joint Standing Committee on Northern Australia's inquiry into economic engagement with traditional owners. We'd like to thank witnesses for appearing here today. I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land and show our respect to elders past, present and emerging of all our First Nations people. In accordance with the committee's resolution on Thursday 1 August 2019, this hearing will be broadcast on the parliament's website and the proof and official transcripts of proceedings will be published on the parliament's website. Those present here today are advised that filming and recording are permitted during the hearings. I remind members of the media, who may be represent or listening on the web, of the need to fairly and accurately report the proceedings of the committee. Welcome Professor Glynn Cochrane. Although the committee doesn't require you to give evidence under oath, I would advise you that this hearing is a legal proceeding of the parliament and therefore has the same standing as proceedings of the respective houses. The evidence given today will be recorded by Hansard and attracts parliamentary privilege. I now invite you to make a brief opening statement before we proceed to questions. Prof. Cochrane: My 20-year involvement with Rio Tinto community relations began in 1995, when I was in Darussalam as the chief UNDP and World Bank technical adviser for civil service reform in Tanzania. Bob Wilson, the then CEO of RTZ, asked me to help him and the company to introduce systematic responses to social issues. Bougainville was still raw and fresh. Society's expectations for mining company behaviour were changing, and NGOs were campaigning vigorously to stop mining. No sooner was I in London than the merger with CRA took place. Bob Wilson became chairman and Leon Davis was CEO of the new Rio Tinto. Working with Richard Harnum, main board directors, product group chiefs and community practitioners, we developed a new design for community relations, which had support at all levels of the company as well as in operations in Australia and around the world. Since Juukan, I have been thinking about a number of issues, and these are the following: What worked well and what went wrong with Rio Tinto's community relations in the Pilbara? Where should the social function be placed in the corporate headquarters of the organisation? Why did social performance reporting fail to pick up the dissatisfaction expressed by the company's Aboriginal neighbours? What changes are urgently required to the way Rio Tinto accounts for salvaged artefacts? Is the chairman of Rio Tinto right when he says the present CEO is the best person to rebuild relationships with Aboriginal communities and others around the world? That is my opening statement. CHAIR: Thank you very much indeed. We'll now start with some questions. Senator DODSON: Good morning, Professor Cochrane. In your submission you say Rio Tinto had been following its own stripped-down version of cultural resource management in the Pilbara and the focus had been on the development of skills and procedures needed to secure quick clearance and the removal of impediments to mining, something that too frequently results in the destruction of sacred sites. The clearance seeking would have encouraged Rio Tinto to think that caves could be destroyed without too much fuss. What do you mean by the development of the skills and procedures needed to secure quick clearances? Prof. Cochrane: In a sense, I think it's the opposite of developing real cultural heritage management skills; it's simply a lot of box ticking and complying with regulations and legislation in order to get quick clearance. I would point out to you that, if you look at what happened after Juukan—there was a film, there were lectures and there were discussions at archaeological associations—that stands in marked contrast to what normally seems to happen. Seven thousand items were removed from those caves. That is not mentioned in the board-led Rio Tinto inquiry, and I think it extremely bad that arrangements have not be made to properly provenance and make arrangements for those artefacts. Artefacts have been collected by mining companies all over the Pilbara, not just for Juukan but for a long time. They are stored in containers. They are not properly being explained. People are not being educated about them, and that's what I mean by that is not really proper cultural heritage. All they're really doing is ticking the boxes, talking about cultural heritage, but I don't think that it's really being done because they exercise the duties of a collecting institution but they do not follow best Australian museum practice. Senator DODSON: You said nothing about the hair belt sample. Prof. Cochrane: I think all of those. It seems to me incredible that there would be 7,000 items and I'm sure that they have not been properly provenanced, tagged and explained. I'm not at all sure that they're being stored in NORTHERN AUSTRALIA COMMITTEE Page 2 JOINT Friday, 28 August 2020 a way that would preserve whatever it is that needs to be preserved, and that I think is a severe problem. Dr Slack said in 2014 that he had started to do this work, and what I think is regrettable is that it looks as if he was on a very tight budget and schedule. This work has not yet been completed. That was 2014. We have no idea still in 2020 where the final keeping place will be for these very, very important artefacts. What in actual fact has happened, if you will forgive me, is it is almost like blowing up the