4211 THE LEGISLATIV E ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2:30 o'clock, Wednesday, June 18, 1975 Opening Prayer by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions; Reading and Re ceiving Petitions; Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees; Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports. The Honourable Attorney-General. TABLING OF REPORT HON. HOWARD PAWLEY (Attorney-General) (Selkirk) : Mr. Speaker, I wish to file an amended Return to Order No. 2. I regret that the error that occurred in that the firm was not spelled out. MR. SPEAKER: Any other Ministerial Statements or Tabling of Reports ? Notices of Motion; Introduction of Bills; Questions. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SIDNEY SPIVAK, Q. C. (Leader of the Official Opposition) (River Heights) : Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could direct a question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce as the Minister in charge of the Bureau of Statistics. I wonder if he' s in a position to now confirm that Statistics Canada in releasing the Cost of Living Index for the past month, and for the past twelve months, has confirmed that Winnipeg and Manitoba once again is in the lead and the cost of living has risen higher in Manitoba over the past twelve month's period - and this has been equalled in the last three months - than any other part of Canada. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Industry and Commerce. HON. LEONARD S. EVANS (Minister of Industry and Commerce) (Brandon East) : Mr. Speaker, we have been atte mpting through the Bureau of Statistics and with the co-operation of Statistics Canada to analyze this phenomenon, the Consumer Price Index, to break it down into parts and components. It is very difficult to ascertain the degree to which this inflation is locally determined and the degree to which the inflation is imported into the Province of Mani­ toba from elsewhere. It's a very difficult procedure. I would only make this point, Mr. Speaker, and that is that for a period preceding the past year or so the rate of inflation in Winnipeg was less than the national average and less than many other cities in Canada, and there seems to be perhaps somewhat of a catch-up pro­ cess. But having said that, Mr. Speaker, when you compare Winnipeg on a spacial bas is, that is, when you look at the total level, or the absolute level, of the cost of living in Winnipeg compared to other major cities in Canada, we're either the lowest or the second lowest. So we still compare quite favourably. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister can explain why the increase in the last twelve months in Winnipeg was higher than the national average. MR. EVANS: Well, Mr. Speaker, this is the very point that I was trying to make a minute ago. We are getting breakdowns of the CPI, with the co-operation of Statistics Canada, and we're attempting to analyze this, but it is a very difficult problem to analyze. MR. SPIVAK: I wonder if the Minister's now in a position to admit that prices in Mani­ toba have risen higher than the rest of Canada. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I only wish that the honourable me mber had listened carefully to what I said. There may have been perhaps a bit of a catch-up process in the past several months or so, but basically speaking, when you compare them geographically - or spac ially, as Statistics Canada would say - people living in the City of Winnipeg can live cheaper than probably any other major city of the same size in Canada. --(lnterjections)-- MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. Order please. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. In his explana­ tion, he indicated that it was poss ible that Manitoba has imported more inflation. Is he suggest­ ing that Manitoba, among all the other provinces in Canada, imported more inflation than any other part of Canada'? MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, what I am suggesting is, this is a very complicated question and no elementary or simple assumptions or assertions made by the Leader of the Opposition is going to give us the answer. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Portage la Prairie. 4212 June 18, 1975 ORAL QUESTIONS MR. GORDON E. JOHNSTON (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the First Minister, I direct my question to the Acting First Minister. Is the government giving any consideration to a reduction in the gas tax because of the proposed increase announced from Ottawa ? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister for Labour. HON. RUSSELL PAULLEY (Minister of Labour) (Transcona) : I would take that as notice, Mr. Speaker, but offhand I would say that the subject matter is not one that is before us at the present time, because we haven't known exactly what Ottawa is doing in this regard. MR. G. JOHNSTON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then I would ask the Acting Pre mier if he' s aware that one of his candidates in the by-elections is calling for the government to reduce gasoline tax. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. I don' t see what pertinence there is to what someone else is saying outside of this Chamber. The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR. HENRY J. EINARSON (Rock Lake) : Mr. Speaker, I direct this question to the Minister of Agriculture, and ask him if he can confirm that officials of his department are touring the province trying to promote an increase in the number of dairy cows in the province. MR. SP EAKER: The Honourable Minister for Agriculture. HON. SAMUEL USKIW (Minister of Agriculture) (Lac du Bonnet) : Mr. Speaker, we have been attempting to do that for a very long time. MR . EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister could give information to this House as to what the projections are of his department in order that he may justify the Crocus Food plant in Selkirk. MR. USKIW: Mr. Speaker, I want to draw to the attention of the Member for Rock Lake the fact that between the years 1965 and 1969 there was a dramatic loss of dairy production in this province which resulted in the Dairy Com mission of Canada reallocating that production to eastern provinces. Subsequently we renegotiated an agreement with the Dairy Commission of Canada where we recaptured that loss, and we have now realized half of that loss in new pro­ duction since we have recaptured that loss from the Federal Dairy Commission. --(Inter­ jection) -- We still have another half-ways to go, Mr . Speaker, and we are actively promoting the increase in production pursuant to our agreement with the Federal Government. MR. EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, I direct a third que stion to the Minister, and ask him whether or not his projections may create a surplus which would in turn create the same sit­ uation for many other farm commodities. MR. USKIW: Mr. Speaker, obviously the Member for Rock Lake does not know the terms of the agreement, the Market-Share Agreement, wherein we have price guarantees and market guarantees for that production yet to be fulfilled. MR. EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, I' m fully aware of the Market-Share Agreement. My question is, Mr . Speaker, I am wondering what is the projection, how many more cows does he want to see in production in the Province of Man itoba insofar as the dairy industry is con­ cerned? MR . USKIW: I couldn' t give the Member for Rock Lake a specific figure, Mr. Speaker, but I know that it' s going to take us a few more years to catch up. MR . EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, I direct another question to the Minister. Are his pro­ jections in consort with the statement that he made in the land-use hearings here in Winnipeg last winter, about providing a cheap food policy to the consumers of this province? MR . USKIW: Well, Mr. Speaker, I don' t know what the Member for Rock Lake is allud­ ing to . I don't believe that I had entertained anything of the sort. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Attorney-General, and it relates to the revised Order for Return that is forwarded. I just want to confirm the information that' s now been presented in answer to the questions that were put. The amount of $120, OOO shown for Richardson and Company dealing with fees and expenses incurred by the Government of Manitoba for legal services in connection with the Commission of Inquiry on the Churchill Forest Industries project does not take into consideration ... MR. SPEAKER: Question please. Not a debate. MR . SPIVAK: This is the question, Mr. Speaker. Does this figure include, or is the figure excluded, - the amount of money paid to the Richardson and Co mpany dealing with the June 18, 1975 4213 ORAL QUESTIONS (MR. SPIVAK cont'd) ..... Churchill Forest Industry project and the related fees paid by the Manitoba Development Corporation in a variety of different undertakings in which the courts were involved? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. PAWLEY: No, that's only the commission fees, Mr. Speaker. The fees paid in respect to the Manitoba Development Corporation were not included. MR. SPIVAK: By way of a supplementary que stion. Does the $120, OOO paid to Richardson and Company only involve the amount paid to them as solicitors for the represen­ tation of the government before the Commission? MR . PAWLEY: I think the best answer really is, in specific answer to the question, and it relates to a payment of fees over a number of years pertaining to the Commission, appearing before the Commission.