LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 6353 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 17 May 2000 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH TING WOO-SHOU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHU YU-LIN THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, S.C., J.P. 6354 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE KAI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LUI MING-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING PROF THE HONOURABLE NG CHING-FAI THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE RONALD ARCULLI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE HUI CHEUNG-CHING THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH THE HONOURABLE CHAN KWOK-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN THE HONOURABLE BERNARD CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN WING-CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 6355 THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE GARY CHENG KAI-NAM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE YEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LAU HON-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHOY SO-YUK THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, J.P. 6356 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-KIN DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P. MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, S.B.S., J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, G.B.M., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION MR RAFAEL HUI SI-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE ELSIE LEUNG OI-SIE, J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY MR NICHOLAS NG WING-FUI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT MR JOSEPH WONG WING-PING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER MR STEPHEN IP SHU-KWAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 6357 MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MR LEE SHING-SEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR WORKS MR PAUL TANG KWOK-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND FOOD MR STEPHEN FREDERICK FISHER SECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND LANDS CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, J.P., SECRETARY GENERAL MR LAW KAM-SANG, J.P., DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR RAY CHAN YUM-MOU, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 6358 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 TABLING OF PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments L.N. No. Security and Guarding Services (Fees) (Amendment) Regulation 2000........................................ 134/2000 Security and Guarding Services (Licensing) (Amendment) Regulation 2000 ...................... 135/2000 Mass Transit Railway Ordinance (13 of 2000) (Commencement) Notice 2000 ...................... 136/2000 Other Papers No. 99 ─ Audited Statement of Accounts of the Quality Education Fund together with the Director of Audit's Report for the year ended 31 August 1999 No. 100 ─ Report on the Administration of the Fire Services Welfare Fund together with the Director of Audit's Report and Audited Statement of Accounts for the year ended 31 March 1999 No. 101 ─ Report by the Trustee of the Correctional Services Children's Education Trust for the period 1st September 1998 to 31st August 1999 Report of the Bills Committee on District Court (Amendment) Bill 1999 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 6359 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. As the Member who will ask the first question has not yet arrived in this Chamber, we shall proceed to the second question first. Checking of Identity Cards by Police 2. MR MARTIN LEE (in Cantonese): Madam President, on the 20th day of last month, some students who participated in the procession and petition organized by the Hong Kong Federation of Students were interrogated and had their identity cards inspected by police officers on the street and inside Mass Transit Railway stations immediately after the petition was over. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council: (a) of the purpose of and use for the police's interrogating the participants of the procession and petition and inspecting their identity cards; (b) of the criteria the police adopts for random checking the identity cards of members of the public in public places; and (c) how the police handle the personal data obtained from stopping and inspecting the identity cards of members of the public in public places? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): Madam President, (a) According to the police's records, two plainclothes officers stopped and requested to check the identity cards of two females at the junction of Wellington Street and D'Aguilar Street at around 7 pm on 20 April 2000. The checks were made solely because the officers suspected the females to be illegal immigrants. The officers were on anti-burglary patrol at that time. They did not see any loudhailers being carried by the two females. Nor did they notice any signs or placards carried by them which might indicate their participation in the demonstration organized earlier by the 6360 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 Hong Kong Federation of Students. They asked to check the identify cards of the two females who later claimed to have participated in the demonstration. The identity card checks in question were totally unrelated to the earlier demonstration. (b) In general, a police officer may invoke his power under the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115) or the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232) respectively to check the identity cards of a person who is suspected of being an illegal immigrant or acts in a suspicious manner. (c) Like all other personal data obtained in police operations, data obtained from identity card checks have to be handled in accordance with the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance (Cap. 486) (PDPO). All practicable steps are taken to ensure that the data is accurate, retained only for as long as is necessary, and are protected against unauthorized or accidental access. In addition, the use (including disclosure or transfer) of the data is allowed only for the purpose for which it was collected or for a directly related purpose, unless the consent of the data subject is obtained, or an exemption under Part VIII of the PDPO is applicable. MR MARTIN LEE (in Cantonese): Madam President, according to the explanation given by the Secretary in part (a) of the main reply, the police had no reason to believe that they had participated in the demonstration organized by the Hong Kong Federation of Students, can the Government inform this Council if the police had any reasonable reasons to believe or suspect that these students were illegal immigrants? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): Madam President, the two plainclothes police officers were on regular anti-burglary patrol on that day. According to the law, if they suspect that a passer-by is an illegal immigrant, they are empowered to check his identity card. As the two female passers-by did not carry any signs, the two police officers did not know that they were related to the earlier demonstration. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 17 May 2000 6361 MR MARTIN LEE (in Cantonese): Excuse me, Madam President, the Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. I understand from the Secretary's reply that the two police officers should not know that the two female passers-by had participated in the earlier demonstration. However, my supplementary question is: Now that the Secretary has also said that their identity cards were not checked for that reason but only because the police officers suspected that they were involved in burglary, why did the police officers believe that they were involved in burglary or were illegal immigrants? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): Madam President, I have just said that the two police officers were on regular anti-burglary patrol and they might not only check the identity card of a passer-by when there was evident proof to arouse suspicion of burgling activities. In fact, if police officers, Immigration Department officers or other legally authorized persons find someone suspicious or suspect that he may be an illegal immigrant or overstayer, they are empowered to stop him and check his identity card. This is not at all surprising and such acts in which passers-by are stopped for checking of identity cards are performed every day.