Printed (by Authority) by CORRIE Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT Douglas, Wednesday, 21st October 1998 at 10.30 a.m. Present: in a bid to allow more time for the supplementary agenda The President of Tynwald (the Hon Sir Charles regarding the incinerator, which of course also will appear Kerruish OBE LLD (hc) CP). In the Council: The Lord later in this sitting. As it happens, it perhaps is more Bishop (the Rt Rev Noel Debroy Jones), the appropriate to have the item considered today as the United Attorney-General (Mr W J H Corlett), Hon C M Christian, Kingdom Government considers the abolition of hereditary Messrs E A Crowe, D F K Delaney, J R Kniveton, peers. The intervening three months from when this E G Lowey, Hon E J Mann and Mr G H Waft, with resolution was tabled have not in any way reduced my Mr T A Bawden, Clerk of the Council. resolve to press ahead with it. I expect it to be a debate where there will be no grey areas, rather simply ones of In the Keys: The Speaker (the Hon N Q Cringle) black and white, for or against. (Rushen); Mr L I Singer and Hon A R Bell (Ramsey); I am well aware, of course, that a five-member select Hon R E Quine OBE (Ayre); Hon H Hannan (Peel); committee is in being, established on 22nd April 1997, to Mr W A Gilbey (Glenfaba); Mr S C Rodan (Garff); consider the role, constitution and election of the Hon D North (Middle); Mr P Kamran, Hon R K Corkin Legislative Council. The committee presented an interim and Mr G T Cannell (Onchan); Messrs J R Houghton and report in February this year containing a number of R W Henderson (Douglas North); Mr A C Duggan provisional conclusions, including a number of interesting (Douglas South); Mr R P Braidwood (Douglas East); observations regarding reform but omitting to satisfy what Messrs J P Shimmin and A F Downie (Douglas West); I view as being one of the primary requirements: Hon J A Brown (Castletown); Hon D J Gelling recommendations on the future method of the election of (Malew and Santon); with Prof T StJ N Bates, Clerk of the Council. Tynwald. With the greatest respect I would suggest that this is the main concern of the public. Recent difficulties experienced with the election of two members to fill positions left vacant by the retirement of His Honour Arthur Luft and the hon. The Lord Bishop took the prayers. Brian Barton saw the hon. member for Onchan fairly easily take the first place, allowing an excellent replacement in Apologies for Absence the House of Keys, but the other did take a long time to resolve before the hon. member for North Douglas finally The President: Hon. members, to the apologies of agreed to take the seat and was elected. The painful yesterday I have to add that the hon. member of Council experience of filling that second seat focused the public's Mr Radcliffe has leave of absence for this day. attention on the method of election, and there were more than a few ready to then say, 'Enough is enough.' Certainly, to me, the general perception was one of near ridicule, demeaning the status and dignity of the very fine office of Legislative Council — Election by Popular the Legislative Council. The spectacle of the House of Keys Franchise — Debate Adjourned meeting virtually every week trying to fill the second seat was degrading and an embarrassment to some of those The President: Now, hon. members, turning to the order who were proposed along the line, as political factions paper, we come to the long-awaited item 7 and I call upon made their presence felt, but, of course, democracy had to the hon. member for Onchan, Mr Cannell. prevail. But it brought out the folly of continuing to elect Mr Cannell: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to move: members of the Legislative Council by the vote of the House of Keys rather than the vote of the public and that That Tynwald requests the Council of Ministers to was before regard was taken of the need for highly paid introduce legislation to provide for the election of the legislative members having no public franchise or mandate. Legislative Council by popular franchise. It has long been the case that the public sees elevation to the Legislative Council as jobs for the boys, and there is My maiden Tynwald resolution, and of course it comes plenty of justification for that view, in my opinion. Very to the agenda having been held over from the July sitting few outsiders have made it to the Council ranks; the vast Apologies for Absence Legislative Council — Election by Popular Franchise — Debate Adjourned T70 TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 21st OCTOBER 1998 majority have come from the Keys' own numbers or from by a death. At that point all nine seats in the Council would persons who previously had been in the Keys. In certain become vacant but would still be open to be occupied by cases there have even been examples of persons rejected retiring members, new Keys members, or indeed outsiders. by the electorate making a comeback to the legislature The Lord Bishop would retain his seat under my plan through a Council seat. This is in no way intended as a without recourse to election beyond requiring approval by slight on those who occupy Council seats through any of the public of a minimum of 51 per cent within the four the foregoing methods at present but merely illustrates the regional areas I propose the remaining eight Council seats problem the public has in trying to condone it. would come from. The four regions of the Island which, Hon. members, it is time that accountability comes into of course, would be based on east, west, north and south our lives. Two current MLCs have not faced an electorate would elect two seats apiece to the Legislative Council for 17 years and two others for 12 years. No longer can we but would not be limited to persons residing within the have the position of our respected upper House being the area. As we have seen fairly recently, of course, in House subject of ridicule. I am not, at the moment, proposing its of Keys elections, a number of members have been complete abolition, only that membership be the subject successfully elected without living within their of public approval. What we have had is that certain Keys constituencies. members have pledged their support to the electorate and, In theory this, of course, could lead to the House of within a very short period of time, have allowed their names Keys being robbed of eight seats mid-term, leaving the to go forward for elevation to the Legislative Council. This House down at 16, but I see that as being extremely unlikely is simply not acceptable. It costs a lot of money to hold as those who have faced a general election only two-and- by-elections, promises which were made by Keys members a-half years before, in general, are unlikely or unwilling to their electorate are put to one side in the pursuit of to seek Council elevation in their first term, though, as I election to the Legislative Council for whatever reason, have mentioned, we have seen some exceptions to that in and in recent cases there has been disenfranchisement of recent times. In the case of House of Keys members having constituencies for considerable periods of time while new been re-elected at general elections, their route may well members are elected. What I am proposing here is not in be up to the Council. After they have served one term of the form of a private member's Bill of course, though five years they would then be at a minimum seven-and-a- perhaps that might become necessary if this move does half years into their service, but either way they would not not come off today, but I respectfully suggest that the select lose their Keys seats by standing for the Council under my committee have so far failed to take notice of the public's plan. You could retain your Keys seat if you are very real concern and address the subject of public election unsuccessful; you go back to the Keys if you are of the Legislative Council. unsuccessful for the Council, as indeed now is the case The committee will, of course, say they have every and would remain. intention of doing so in the future in their next report and But even if the general election to the Legislative that may very well be the case. I certainly hope so, but in Council did result in the Keys providing all eight members, my desire to advance the matter I have taken the liberty of as is unlikely, this would lead the experienced people still putting it to this Court today. The call is for the Court to involved but they would be in another place, but we would request the Council of Ministers to introduce legislation not lose their expertise. It might, of course, mean eight and that, of course, is a big step to take. The select vacant Keys seats which would then have to be filled by committee numbers ministers among its members, so no by-elections, which would be quite costly, I agree. It is doubt they will feel slighted by this motion.