The Cultural Landscape Foundation® Pioneers of American Landscape Design® ___________________________________ JOE KARR ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT ___________________________________ Interviews Conducted May 23-24, 2017 By Charles A. Birnbaum, FASLA, FAAR © 2018 The Cultural Landscape Foundation, all rights reserved. May not be used or reproduced without permission. Table of Contents PRELUDE .......................................................................................................................................... 5 BIOGRAPHY ..................................................................................................................................... 6 Childhood .................................................................................................................................................................. 6 Growing up in Northern Illinois ............................................................................................................................ 6 Early Experiences of Landscape ........................................................................................................................ 6 Rock River Valley ............................................................................................................................................. 7 Early Experiences of Art ....................................................................................................................................... 8 Drawing ............................................................................................................................................................. 8 Making Models .................................................................................................................................................. 9 The Connection between the Hand and the Pen ................................................................................................ 9 Education ................................................................................................................................................................. 10 University of Illinois ............................................................................................................................................ 10 Faculty at the University of Illinois ................................................................................................................. 11 Peter Hornbeck ................................................................................................................................................ 11 Early Knowledge of Dan Kiley ....................................................................................................................... 13 Stanley White .................................................................................................................................................. 13 Curriculum at University of Illinois ................................................................................................................. 15 Charles Harris .................................................................................................................................................. 16 Studying Piazzas .............................................................................................................................................. 17 Pedagogy at the University of Illinois ............................................................................................................. 19 University of Pennsylvania .................................................................................................................................. 20 Philadelphia ..................................................................................................................................................... 20 G. Holmes Perkins ........................................................................................................................................... 20 Karl Linn.......................................................................................................................................................... 21 Ian McHarg ...................................................................................................................................................... 23 National Park Service ...................................................................................................................................... 28 Juries at the University of Pennsylvania .......................................................................................................... 29 Classmates at Penn .......................................................................................................................................... 30 Friendship with Karl Linn ............................................................................................................................... 34 The California Modernists: Thomas Church, Lawrence Halprin, and Garrett Eckbo ...................................... 35 Tommy Church’s Office .................................................................................................................................. 37 Architectural History at Penn .......................................................................................................................... 38 George Patton .................................................................................................................................................. 39 Hodge Hanson ................................................................................................................................................. 40 Practice .................................................................................................................................................................... 41 The Office of Dan Kiley ...................................................................................................................................... 41 Getting a Job with Dan Kiley .......................................................................................................................... 41 1 © 2018 The Cultural Landscape Foundation, all rights reserved. May not be used or reproduced without permission. Anne Kiley ....................................................................................................................................................... 46 First Day in Kiley’s Office .............................................................................................................................. 49 Office of Dan Kiley, Wings Point, Vermont ................................................................................................... 51 The Experience of Wings Point ....................................................................................................................... 55 The First One at the Office .............................................................................................................................. 57 Wally Scheffley ............................................................................................................................................... 59 Harriet Pattison ................................................................................................................................................ 60 The Office of Dan Kiley Grows ...................................................................................................................... 61 Activities at Wings Point ................................................................................................................................. 62 Visitors to Vermont ......................................................................................................................................... 66 Visiting the Miller Garden ............................................................................................................................... 68 Meeting Kaisu .................................................................................................................................................. 69 Architects and Dan Kiley ..................................................................................................................................... 71 Eero Saarinen ................................................................................................................................................... 72 Louis Kahn at Wings Point .............................................................................................................................. 73 Harry Weese .................................................................................................................................................... 74 Friendships in the Office of Dan Kiley ............................................................................................................ 78 Joe Karr and Associates ........................................................................................................................................... 79 Leaving the Office of Dan Kiley ......................................................................................................................... 79 Starting out in Chicago ........................................................................................................................................ 82 Working with