1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGES * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the matter of: * * PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF * THE LANDING OF US AIRWAYS FLIGHT * SA-532 1549, N106US, IN THE HUDSON RIVER, * WEEHAWKEN, NEW JERSEY, * JANUARY 15, 2009 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NTSB Board Room and Conference Center 490 L'Enfant Plaza Washington, D.C. 20024 Tuesday, June 9, 2009 The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, pursuant to notice at 9:00 a.m. BEFORE: ROBERT L. SUMWALT, Chairman ROBERT BENZON, Hearing Officer, Investigator-in-Charge JOHN DeLISI, Board Member JOSEPH M. KOLLY, Board Member Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 2 APPEARANCES: Technical Panel: ROBERT BENZON, NTSB, Office of Aviation Safety DAVID HELSON, NTSB, Air Safety Investigator, Operations/Human Performance Co-Chair US Airways Flight 1549 investigation, Office of Aviation Safety NICOLAS MARCOU, BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation Civile) BRIAN MURPHY, NTSB, National Resource Specialist – Aircraft Structures, Office of Aviation Safety JOHN O'CALLAGHAN, NTSB, National Resource Specialist - Aircraft Performance, Vehicle Performance Division, Office of Research and Engineering JASON FEDOK, NTSB, Survival Factors Investigator, Office of Aviation Safety MARK GEORGE, NTSB, Survival Factors Investigator, Office of Aviation Safety KATHARINE A. WILSON, NTSB, Air Safety Investigator, Operations/Human Performance Co-Chairman of US Airways Flight 1549 Investigation, Office of Aviation Safety HARALD REICHEL, NTSB, Aerospace Engineer, Powerplant Group Chairman of Hudson River Flight 1549 Investigation, Office of Aviation Safety Parties to the Hearing: PAUL MORELL, US Airways RUDY CANTO, Airbus DAN SICCHIO, US Airline Pilots Association CANDACE KOLANDER, Association of Flight Attendants BRUCE MILLS, CFM International HOOPER HARRIS, Federal Aviation Administration PETER KNUDSON, Public Affairs Specialist Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 3 I N D E X ITEM PAGE Opening Remarks by Robert Sumwalt, Chairman 7 Introduction of Board of Inquiry by Chairman Sumwalt 11 Introduction of Technical Panel members 11 Introduction of Parties 13 NTSB Exhibits received into the public docket 15 Investigation Review by Robert Benzon, Investigator-in-Charge 15 TOPIC #1: Captain and Passenger of US Airways Flight 1549 Witness 1: Captain Chesley Sullenberger, A320 Captain - US Airways Questioning by Technical Panel: By Dr. Wilson 23 By Mr. Marcou 30 Questioning by Parties: By Ms. Kolander 31 By Mr. Harris 36 By Mr. Sicchio 39 Questioning by Board of Inquiry: By Dr. Kolly 42 By Mr. DeLisi 43 By Chairman Sumwalt 46 Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 4 I N D E X (cont'd) ITEM PAGE Witness 2: Billy Campbell, Passenger, Seat 25A, US Airways Flight 1549 Questioning by Technical Panel: By Mr. Fedok 52 Questioning by Parties: By Mr. Harris 69 By Capt. Canto 71 By Mr. Mills 71 Questioning by Board of Inquiry: By Mr. DeLisi 73 By Chairman Sumwalt 74 TOPIC #2: Pilot training regarding ditchings and forced landings into water Witnesses: Capt. Marc Parisis, Vice-President, Flight Operations Support and Services, Airbus Capt. John Hope, A320 Fleet Captain, US Airways John Duncan, Manager, Air Transportations Division, FAA Dr. Barbara Burian, Research Psychologist, NASA Witness Presentations: Airbus Operational Procedures by Capt. Parisis 80 US Airways training for dual engine failures and ditching by Capt. Hope 90 Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 5 I N D E X (cont'd) ITEM PAGE Research on emergency/abnormal events by Dr. Burian 106 Questioning by Technical Panel: By Capt. Helson 79 96 By Dr. Wilson 105 118 148 By Mr. O'Callaghan 129 Questioning by Parties: By Capt. Sicchio 131 146 By Mr. Morell 138 By Mr. Harris 142 By Capt. Canto 147 Questioning by Board of Inquiry: By Dr. Kolly 150 By Mr. DeLisi 151 By Chairman Sumwalt 154 TOPIC #3: Bird detections and mitigation efforts Witnesses: Dr. Richard Dolbeer, US Department of Agriculture Michael Begier, US Department of Agriculture Michael O'Donnell, Director, Office of Airports Safety and Standards, FAA Ryan King, Project Engineer, Aviation Research and Technology Development Office, Airport Safety Technology Sub-Team, FAA Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 6 I N D E X (cont'd) ITEM PAGE Witness Presentations: Overview of Bird Strike Hazards by Dr. Dolbeer 157 Overview of Bird Strike Hazards by Mr. Begier 169 Subject: Airports by Mr. O'Donnell 188 Subject: Avian Radar Systems by Mr. King 199 Questioning by Technical Panel: By Mr. George 179 205 Questioning by Parties: By Capt. Canto 209 By Mr. Mills 211 By Capt. Sicchio 213 Questioning by Board of Inquiry: By Dr. Kolly 216 By Mr. DeLisi 220 By Chairman Sumwalt 225 Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 7 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (9:00 a.m.) 3 CHAIRMAN SUMWALT: Well, good morning, ladies and 4 gentlemen, and welcome. My name is Robert Sumwalt and I am a 5 Board Member of the National Transportation Safety Board, and it 6 is my distinct pleasure and honor to serve as Chairman of the 7 Board of Inquiry for this public hearing. 8 This morning we open a public hearing concerning the 9 accident involving US Airways Flight 1549 on Airbus A320 that made 10 a forced landing, an emergency landing, on the Hudson River, on 11 January the 15th of this year. 12 This hearing is being held for the purpose of 13 supplementing the facts, the conditions, and the circumstances 14 surrounding this accident. This process will assist the Safety 15 Board in determining the probable cause of the accident, and in 16 making any recommendations to prevent similar accidents in the 17 future. No determination of cause will be rendered during these 18 proceedings. While airline accidents are rare events, they are 19 widely publicized and scrutinized by experts around the globe. 20 This event was made even more exceptional by the 21 spectacular nature of the landing on the river, along with the 22 significant fact, the very significant fact, that there were no 23 fatalities. 24 Along those lines, I'd like to take a moment to 25 recognize and welcome the Flight 1549 passengers and their family Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 8 1 members who are present in our audience today, along with those 2 that are viewing the proceeding via our web cast. 3 While we are grateful that this event had a positive 4 outcome, we are also aware that this event has been very difficult 5 for many of you, and as we proceed through the Board’s 6 investigation, I want to assure you that we will conduct a 7 thorough investigation to hopefully prevent others from going 8 through what you have been through, and that is why we are here. 9 When a transportation accident occurs, it is the 10 responsibility of the NTSB to determine what happened, why it 11 happened, and what can be done to prevent similar accidents in the 12 future. A public hearing is one tool that the NTSB may use to 13 complete an accident investigation, and the purpose of this 14 hearing is two-fold. 15 First, the issues that will be discussed serve to assist 16 the Safety Board in developing additional factual information that 17 will be analyzed for the purpose of determining probable cause of 18 the accident. 19 And, secondly, this hearing also provides an opportunity 20 not only for the aviation community, but for the traveling public, 21 as a whole, to see inside of the NTSB's investigative process. 22 As an additional point of information, I'd like to note 23 that I was, for a number of years, employed as a pilot for US 24 Airways. In fact, I even flew the accident aircraft on occasions. 25 By way of clarification, though, I want to add that I have no Free State Reporting, Inc. (410) 974-0947 9 1 financial interest in or relationship of any type with US Airways 2 and have not had such an interest or relationship since leaving US 3 Airways over four years ago. 4 That said, I should note that, in accordance with the 5 requirements of the Standards of Conduct, the NTSB’s Designated 6 Agency Ethics Official carefully reviewed the propriety of my 7 serving as chairman of this Board of Inquiry for this hearing. 8 That review found there was no conflict of interest or reason to 9 believe that my impartiality or that of the Board should be 10 questioned. As are my fellow Board Members and the remainder of 11 the Board staff, I am committed to an impartial and a complete 12 investigation of this accident. 13 Now, to the matter at hand: in preparation for this 14 hearing, I flew through the accident scenario in a flight 15 simulator. I've listened to the Cockpit Voice Recorder in real 16 time and as an experienced pilot, I can tell you this flight crew 17 had a lot going on. They had a lot going on in a very short 18 period of time. And, in considering what could have been done 19 differently, there is certainly no intention by the Safety Board 20 to diminish the crew’s and the first responder’s extraordinary 21 success in saving the lives of all passengers and crew that day. 22 We must learn from this accident, not only what went 23 right but what might be able to be done to improve it and learn 24 from it so that it can be improved even more so next time. 25 Neither I nor any other Safety Board personnel will attempt during Free State Reporting, Inc.