Legislative Assembly of Manitoba HEARINGS OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON LAND OWNERSHIP Chairman Mr. Harry Shafransky, M.L.A. Constituency of Radisson Brandon - Thursday, January 30, 1975 Printed by R. S. Evans- Queen's Printer for Province of Manitoba 129 THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THIRD MEETING OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON LAND OWNERSHIP BRANDON, JANUARY 30, 1975 CHAIRMA N: MR . H. SHA FRANSKY. MR . CHAIRMA N: We have a quorum. We shall proceed with the meeting into the question of land use and matters related to property rights in Manitoba. Mr. Walding. MR. WA LDING: Mr. Chairman, I will move that the name of Mr. Dillen be substituted for that of the Honourable Mr. Boyce as a member of this committee. MR. CHAIRMAN: It has been moved that Mr. Dillen substitute for the name of Mr. Boyce. Any question ? Agreed ? Agreed. Fine. I have a number of people who have indicated a desire to present a brief to the committee and I shall read over them. The Manitoba Association of Calf Producers, the Rural Municipalities of Birtle, Miniota, Ellice, Silver Creek, Shoal Lake and Emerson, and there was a letter to that effect from Mr. Fulton. The Western Manitoba Farm Bus iness Association. Now I don't know if this is the same one as the Manitoba Farm Business Association from Mr. Kingdon, a letter from Mr. Kingdon, whether those are two separate groups or the same one. Is Mr. Kingdon here ? So I assume then that it's two separate groups. The Rural Municipality of Morton and the Town of Boissevain. Jerry Ackerman, University of Manitoba Agricultural Economist. Gerry Hawhaw, Rivers, Manitoba. Herb Mcintosh, Farmer from Carberry. R. Cameron. And there's a letter - possibly I may read it at this time unless Mr. Cameron also wishes to speak to the committee. He has a very short letter. "Dear Sir: I would like to submit a brief on property rights of land. I' m in the Brandon area." And he has a sort of a resolution that present or future governments at no time own a higher percentage of agricultural farm lands than two percent and all programs lead as much as possible to ownership by the farmer and his family, and it is signed by Mr. Cameron, farmer from Minnedosa. Is Mr. Cameron here? Then I believe that that is his brief. He has just made a resolution. We also have from the Manitoba Farm Business Association, and Mr. Kingdon has written a letter. I assume that he - is Mr. Kingdon here ? Possibly he'll be here in the afternoon. Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to present a brief to the Committee? Would you please give us your name at this time and we can add it to the list. Yes, sir. -- (Interj ection) -- Yes. You wish to speak to the committee. Okay I'll put you on the list. Mr. Black. Is there anyone else? Possibly before I proceed to the first presentation I should introduce the members of the Committee for the benefit of those people who might not be familiar with them. On my left Mr. Graham, Member for Birtle-Russell; Mr. Harvey Bostrom, Member for Rupertsland, Minister for Co-operatives and Renewable RBsources; Tom Barrow, Member for Flin Flon; Wally Johannson, Member for St. Matthews; Sid Green, Minister of Mines, Resources and Environmental Management; Gordon Johnston, Member for Portage la Prairie; Pete Adam, Member for Ste. Rose; Ken Dillen, Member for Thompson. On my right, Jim Ferguson, Member for Gladstone; Warner Jorgenson, Member for Morris; Dave Blake, Member for Minnedosa; George Henderson, Member for Pembina; Jim Walding, Member for St. Vital; and the Minister of Agriculture, Sam Uskiw. We also have the. A MEMBER: Who are you ? MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm Harry Shafransky, Chairman, and Member for Radisson Constituency. We have the Clerk and the Assistant Clerk, Mr. Jack Reeves and Mr. Anstett from the Clerk's office, and the Deputy Minister of Agriculture Mr. Janssen. The first brief Manitoba Association of Cow-Calf Producers. Would you please come forward. Do you have a brief ? Is there someone present? All right then we'll leave that for the time being. Second one, the Rural Municipalities of Birtle, Miniota, Ellice, Silver Creek, Shoal Lake and Rossburn, and Mr. Fulton. He is not present? The third one, the Western Manitoba Farm Business Association. I have - the Western - You are ... MR. MA NNS: Yes, I represent the Western Manitoba Farm Bus iness Association. 130 January 30, 1975 MR. CHAIRMAN: What is your name, sir? MR. MANNS: Bob Manns. MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, Mr. Manns, you're up. First one. Mr. Manns. You have some briefs for the committee? MR . MANNS: Yes, we do. MR . CHAIRMA N: All right they will be distributed to the members of the Committee. I might mention that there will be future meetings of the Committee and the likely places that upon confirmation with the Clerk, the likely places will be Arborg, Steinbach or Beausejour and Morden, and in addition to that one in Winnipeg as one of the last, possibly the last ones. The dates I will be checking but tentatively I have, well I shouldn't mention it because the press will put in the wrong dates as they did the last time put the Brandon meet­ ing first and the Dauphin meeting last, in the last issue. Mr. Manns. MR . MA NNS: Mr. Chairman, as spokesman for the Western Manitoba Farm Bus iness Association and the Southwestern Farm Bus iness Association, I'm presenting this brief on their behalf. Mr. Chairman, we thank you for the opportunity to present this brief to the Special Committee of the Legislative Assembly for the Province of Manitoba inquiring into property rights in Manitoba. On behalf of the Western and Southwestern Manitoba Farm Business Association we would take this opportunity to outline our proposals on land use, ownership and property rights. Firstly, however, we feel it is important to point out that our two groups are composed of people actively engaged in farming. Our membership is drawn from a wide area stretching from the Riding Mountains on the North, Saskatchewan boundary on the West, the U. S. Boundary on the South and on the East by a line running approximately north and south through Neepawa. We are a group of farmers formed into an association for the pooling of ideas in farm policy to help promote a better farming community, both for ourselves and for our fellow farm ers . A serious effort is put into keeping of accurate farm account records to help make management decisions for the betterment of their farming enterprises. We certainly cannot claim to represent the entire farming population of this area but we can report a general feeling of scepticism and alarm among farmers to recent rumours of government ownership of farm lands. We say rumours since this is mainly what information has been filtering down to the farm level. We therefore cannot help but be critical of the general lack of information and publicity of these hearings. We would therefore as our first recommendation strongly urge this committee to carefully consider the Manitoba Farm Bureau's ninth recommendation. This recommendation calls for the establishment of a land use and ownership cornmi s- s ion, and that this cornmiss ion be given a period of at least one year to: (1) assemble.and publish adequate information; (2) encourage public consideration of all land use and ownership issues, and (3) prepare recommendations on land use and ownership for the Provincial Government. In regard to the subject of foreign ownership of lands it has been our experience that there are many differing views among the farming public on this subject. A few points that we did agree on were, that foreign ownership is acceptable provided the purchaser is required to take up residence in Manitoba and obtain Canadian citizenship within a short period of time, say three years. The majority of us are after all foreigners to this country. We are however disturbed about foreign ownership and think that there should be con­ trols as to the amount of land that can be owned by a foreigner who is not about to become a Canadian citizen. The difference in exchanges of foreign currency in itself is a matter that puts a Canadian buyer at a disadvantage and forces him to pay higher prices for land. We cannot find too much criticism of the Saskatchewan Farm Ownership Act. This type of legis­ lation would in our opinion be acceptable to most Manitoba farmers. On reading the report In Search of a Land Policy for Manitoba we had the feeling that the writer favours government ownership of all farm lands. On Pages 78 and 79 an example is illustrated favouring govern ment ownership and the lessee over-buying through FCC or rent­ ing from a landlord. Firstly, we will state that we favour an individual buying and owning equity in his farm January 30, 1975 131 (MR. MANNS cont'd) .....as opposed to the govern ment getting into land ownership and lease-back. It is our belief that an individual would be more interested, more ecologically minded, and do a better job of far ming, if he has equity in his own far m. Our forbears ca me to this country to own a piece of land; in a good many cases homesteaded it through hard times. We believe that the majority of farmers want to own their own land. The far mers of Manitoba have a good record of productivity and have proved to be very efficient.