43rd PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION Standing Committee on Finance EVIDENCE NUMBER 029 Tuesday, March 23, 2021 Chair: The Honourable Wayne Easter 1 Standing Committee on Finance Tuesday, March 23, 2021 ● (1600) This amendment, with NDP-2 and NDP-3, would amend the leg‐ [English] islation so that the loan repayment moratorium is extended. This is what the House called for—all of us did—on November 24. The Chair (Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.)): We will call the meeting to order. We know that students are going through a profound financial crisis in terms of continuing to try to maintain their studies, but also Welcome to meeting 29 of the Standing Committee on Finance. that trying to get work to pay for those studies is often difficult. The Pursuant to the order of reference of March 8, 2021, the commit‐ supports are not in place. That's why, on November 24, all members tee is meeting to start the clause-by-clause study of Bill C-14, an of the House of Commons voted to extend this moratorium. act to implement certain provisions of the economic statement It's the missing aspect of Bill C-14. It's something that simply tabled in Parliament on November 30, 2020 and other measures. needs to be corrected, I believe. When you look at the House mo‐ tion and when you look at the situation students are finding them‐ Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format, pursuant to the selves in, this is simply a way of correcting that oversight. The in‐ House order of January 25, therefore members are attending in per‐ terest payment moratorium, of course, is welcome, but when stu‐ son in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The pro‐ dents are having to pay back their loans at a time of great financial ceedings will be made available via the House of Commons web‐ crisis in the midst of a pandemic, with the third wave coming, it site. The webcast covers only the person who is speaking, rather makes sense for us to improve this legislation, so that's what I'm than the committee as a whole. proposing. With that, I first of all want to thank all the witnesses for coming ● (1605) to assist us in the clause-by-clause study. The Chair: Peter, I expect you're expecting this, but I will have We have witnesses here from the Department of Employment to rule the amendment inadmissible because it requires a royal rec‐ and Social Development, from the Department of Finance, from the ommendation. I'll explain why. Department of Health and from the Department of Western Eco‐ Part 2 of Bill C-14 seeks to amend the Canada Student Loans Act nomic Diversification. to temporarily suspend interest and interest payments with respect With that, we will go to the clause-by-clause study of Bill C-14. to guaranteed student loans during the period that begins on April Members, if you have any questions on any of these clauses as 1, 2021, and ends on March 31, 2022. The amendment attempts to we're going through them, please raise them, and the appropriate suspend interest and interest payments by a borrower for an indeter‐ witness from the various departments will answer. minate period of time that begins on April 1, 2021. Therefore, ex‐ pending the time, the government would assume the payment of in‐ (Clauses 2 to 5 inclusive agreed to on division) terest to the lender, which would result in increasing payments from the consolidated revenue fund. (On clause 6) House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states The Chair: There's an amendment by the NDP. It's NDP-1, on on page 772: clause 6. Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown, Go ahead, Peter. You will want to move that. it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications specified in the Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP): Thank royal recommendation. you very much, Mr. Chair. In my opinion, the amendment as proposed requires a royal rec‐ Yes, I move the amendment. ommendation, since it imposes a new charge on the treasury. There‐ fore, I rule the amendment inadmissible. Members of the committee will recall that back on November 24, Mr. Peter Julian: Thank you, Mr. Chair. You're absolutely right the House of Commons voted unanimously to call on the govern‐ to say I did expect that, and I'll be challenging your ruling. ment to extend the moratorium on paying student loans. We cur‐ rently have a moratorium on interest, but not on the actual payment I would suggest that it's up to the committee, and opposition of student loans. members may choose to override the ruling of the chair. 2 FINA-29 March 23, 2021 On that basis, I would suggest that the House of Commons mo‐ tion, because it would mean spending more money. Therefore, I tion that was adopted by all members on November 24 provided rule the amendment inadmissible. very clear guidelines as to where the government's legislation Mr. Peter Julian: Thank you, Mr. Chair. should have gone, so this oversight needs to be corrected. The gov‐ ernment withholding a royal recommendation is a matter of politi‐ By the same measure, I will challenge your ruling. The House of cal choice, and the government can choose to provide a royal rec‐ Commons has clearly stated, where Liberals and Conservatives ommendation if this committee overrides the chair's decision and were a part of that motion being adopted unanimously, that students includes that as part of the amended legislation that's brought for‐ should not be forced to pay back their student loan in the midst of a ward to the House of Commons. pandemic, so I challenge your ruling with all the great respect I have for you as chair. Because we're in a minority Parliament, members have the sovereign right to override a chair's decision. I think there is a solid The Chair: That is entirely your right. basis on which to do that, given that we have had a House of Com‐ We will go to the clerk for a vote on the chair's ruling. mons motion that was adopted by all members of Parliament, and this legislation, of course, should be amended so it reflects the clear (Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 9; nays 2) will of members of the House of Commons from all parties on November 24. (Clause 7 agreed to on division) I will challenge the chair on that basis. (On clause 8) The Chair: All right. The Chair: We'll go then to clause 8 and NDP-3. Mr. Clerk, on the challenge to the chair's ruling, could you call Peter. the vote? ● (1615) (Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 9; nays 2) Mr. Peter Julian: Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. (Clause 6 agreed to on division) This would amend the Apprentice Loans Act so that there is a loan repayment moratorium. (On clause 7) Mr. Chair, you'll recall that at the beginning of this pandemic, the The Chair: On clause 7, Peter, you have an amendment there as government, with all-party support, put in place a moratorium on well. It's NDP‑2. Do you want to move it? student debt payments. That moratorium ended, and now students ● (1610) are struggling and people in apprenticeship training programs are Mr. Peter Julian: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. struggling to pay for their student loans at the same time as they're trying to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. I have gotten a clear view of the committee's will, so I will add to There is a profound indication of unfairness to that. my initial comments. For clause 6, amendments were to the Canada Student Loans Act. This is regarding amendments to the Canada In light of the November 24 motion adopted unanimously, which Student Financial Assistance Act. included apprenticeship loans, I would move this amendment, which would ensure that there's a moratorium for all those in ap‐ I would implore committee members to override the chair's rul‐ prenticeship programs across the country on having to repay their ing on royal recommendation and also vote in favour of this student loans during this pandemic. amendment, since students are now being forced to pay for student loans because the government has ignored the all-party resolution The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Julian. I will have to rule the same that was adopted unanimously on November 24. as I ruled on the previous NDP-1 and NDP-2. I know this relates to the Apprentice Loans Act, but it is the same issue concerning a re‐ Let's look at this picture. Students who are crippled by debt are quirement for a royal recommendation that can come only from the trying to pay back their loans at the same time as they're often government or the ministry. Therefore, I rule the amendment inad‐ struggling to get their families through the pandemic and put food missible as well. on the table. This is something that simply doesn't mesh, I think, Mr. Peter Julian: With respect, Mr. Chair, I will challenge that with the fairness and equity we want to see in this country. That's ruling. We need apprenticeship training. We need the apprentice‐ why I'm proposing this amendment to the Canada Student Financial ship programs across the country to continue.