ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on STATUTORY REGULATIONS and ORDERS 31-32 Elizabeth 11 Chairman Mr. Peter Fox Constituency of Concordia VOL. XXXI No. 3 - 8:00 p.m., THURSDAY, 21 JULY, 1983. Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer, Provmce or Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name Constituency Party ADAM, Hon. A.R. (Pete) Ste. Rose NDP ANSTETT, Andy Springfield NDP ASHTON, Sieve Thompson NDP BANMAN, Robert (Bob) La Verendrye PC BLAKE, David R. {Dave) Minnedosa PC BROWN, Arnold Rhineland PC BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. Gimli NDP CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. Brandon West IND CORRIN, Brian Ell ice NDP COWAN, Hon. Jay Churchill NDP DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent St. Boniface NDP DODICK, Doreen Riel NDP DOERN, Russell Elmwood NDP DOLIN, Hon. Mary Beth Kildonan NDP DOWNEY, James E. Arthur PC DRIEDGER, Albert Emerson PC ENNS, Harry Lakeside PC EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. Brandon East NDP EYLER, Phil River East NDP FILMON, Gary Tuxedo PC FOX, Peter Concordia NDP GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) Swan River PC GRAHAM, Harry Virden PC HAMMOND, Gerrie Kirkfield Park PC HARAPIAK, Harry M. The Pas NDP HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HEMPHILL, Hon. Maureen Logan NDP HYDE, Lloyd Portage la Prairie PC JOHNSTON, J. Frank Sturgeon Creek PC KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene Seven Oaks NDP KOVNATS, Abe Niakwa PC LECUYER, Gerard Radisson NDP LY ON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling Charleswood PC MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. AI St. James NDP MALINOWSKI, Donald M. St. Johns NDP MANNESS, Clayton Morris PC McKENZIE, J. Wally Roblin-Russell PC MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) St. Norbert PC NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) Assiniboia PC OLESON, Charlotte Gladstone PC ORCHARD, Donald Pembina PC PAW LEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. Selkirk NDP PA RASIUK, Hon. Wilson Tr anscona NDP PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland Fort Rouge NDP PHILLIPS, Myrna A. Wolseley NDP PLOHMAN, Hon. John Dauphin NDP RANSOM, A. Brian Turtle t';;ountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Burrows NDP SCHROEDER, Hon. Vie Rossrnere NDP SCOTT, Don lnkster NDP SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) Fort Garry PC SMITH, Hon. Muriel Os borne NDP STEEN, Warren River Heights PC STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. Flin Flon NDP URUSKI, Hon. Bill lnterlake NDP USKIW, Hon. Samuel Lac du Bonnet NDP WA LDING, Hon. D. James St. Vital NDP LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON STATUTOR Y REGULATIONS AND ORDERS Thursday, 21 July, 1983 TIME- 8:00 p.m. briefs to see whether we're going to be unduly - not unduly - but say a number of people decide to take LO CATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba in excess of 30 minutes, 40 minutes, then we may have to make that consideration, but until we actually hear CHAIRMAN- Mr. Peter Fox (Concordia) a few briefs I don't know whether we have anything to be concerned about in terms of time. ATTENDANCE - QUORUM - 6 Members of the committee present: MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. McKenzie. Hon. Messrs. Bucklaschuk, Parasiuk and MR. W. McKENZIE: Well, Mr. Chairman, just for the Uskiw, Messrs. Fox, Kovnats, McKenzie, Mrs. record, I've been here since 1966. This matter is the Oleson, Mr. Orchard third time it's been in the Legislature, and I don't think WITNESSES: Representations were made to the that we have in this committee the right to deny any committee as follows: citizen the right to come and express themself to the nth degree on this matter. it's the third time in my years Mr. Sidney Green, Q.C., Manitoba Progressive that it's been in the Legislature, and I think that we Party better hear the public very carefully on this thing and Ms. lrene Stevenson, Private Citizen not deny anybody the right to speak to the fullest, so Mr. Ajit Manku and Dr. N.S Rihal, Singh Sabha that the Legislature will finally resolve this matter once Winnipeg, Inc. and for all. Thank you. Mr. Bryan Roberton, Independent Motorcycle Rider MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall we proceed? Mr. Green. Mr. Harry Cohen , President and Chief MR. S. GREEN: Mr. Chairman, and committee Executive Officer of the Alalgamated Transit members, perhaps Mr. Parasiuk was forewarned when Union he saw the first person on the delegation list, because I can well recall that when I was a member of the MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: Legislature one of the honourable speakers, after Bill No. 60, An Act to amend The Highway several speeches, came up to me and said, Mr. Green, Traffic Act (2). the rule is that you may speak 40 minutes, not that you must speak 40 minutes. In any event, Mr. Chairman, perhaps the Minister was properly forewarned because it is a subject in which I tend to become somewhat involved and I will try to MR. CHAIRMAN: Committee will come to order. We speak as briefly as I can, but I do have some things have a quorum. - (Interjection) - No, no. For the which I at least consider important to say on the subject. benefit of the people who are making representations, First of all, Mr. Chairman, and members, I would like this committee will meet tomorrow at 2 o'clock again to indicate that last Thursday this particular problem to hear all the other representations, those that do not was forcibly impressed on my mind by an incident. I get done tonight. was walking out of a law office, in which I'm required The first person we have today is Sid Green. Ye s, to be, and there was a young man about 20 years of Mr. Parasiuk? age, who was wearing a neck brace and a long cast on his foot. He was a cyclist and he had been involved HON. W. PARASIUK: I see that we have quite a long in a motor vehicle accident. He was wearing a helmet number of people wanting to make representation, and there is absolutely no question in his mind, or in which is good. At the same time, I recall that in past my mind, that the helmet saved his life; that if it were hearings we've tried to - occasionally when we've had not for that helmet I would not have seen him. He broke a long list of people wanting to make representation his neck and that, from time to time, will end one's - set a time limit of 20 minutes or 30 minutes or 40 life, but it didn't end his life. He is alive, and I hope minutes, just roughly speaking, rather than having it he will be well, and he was well-advised to wear that left very loose and open-ended. We can end up with helmet. one two-hour presentation, so I'm wondering whether Interestingly enough, Mr. Chairman and members, we couldn't get agreement to try and go for a half hour. he didn't need the authority of the state compelling him to do so, but nevertheless he wore it. Mr. Chairman, MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm at the pleasure of the committee. he knew well enough to wear a helmet, and this bill Mr. Orchard. won't help him, but you are missing out on helping him. He broke his leg! I want to indicate that these MR. D. ORCHARD: Mr. Chairman, that may be things are available, and I am sure, Mr. Chairman, I something we wish to consider after we've had a few am positive, that you will get any number of doctors 57 Thursday, 21 July, 1983 to tell you that the chances of coming out of an accident lives are we prepared to let people make their own I with your leg less damaged will be reduced if you wear decision about in order to maintain freedom in this this. That particular safety feature was not imposed country, because that's the issue, not whether you are upon him by the state and, therefore, by some logic for safety belts or against safety belts. which I have heard, you have cost that person a leg The issue, Mr. Chairman, is whether the Legislature injury which he would not have had. should be guided by what appears to be a current Of course, Mr. Chairman, once you get him to wear attitude that there ought to be a law; that if something this, I also indicate that these things are very good for is good, you have to have a law to enforce it; that if the elbows. it's desirable that when children go to a day care centre, they know whose toothbrush they are using; that if that MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Green, I am sure you are aware is desirable, there ought to be a regulation mapped that the rules of the Legislature are such that we do out by bureaucrats, specified in text, taken to Cabinet not permit exhibits while we are conducting ourselves and argued about as to what toothbrush identification in the House, and that applies to the committees as there will be in a day care centre. well. So I would ask you to describe your exhibits, but lt is an attitude, Mr. Chairman, members of the not to make an issue out of them. committee, which is based on those who don't trust what will happen if one is permitted to exercise what MR. S. GREEN: Mr. Chairman, this is the best is probably one of the most important features of our description, but I want to indicate to you that you did personality, if one is permitted to proceed as a free not stop me, and it was very descriptive and very helpful.