Day 8 IICSA Inquiry - Chichester 14 March 2018 1 Wednesday, 14 March 2018 1 also a priest in charge of a gloriously named parish 2 (10.00 am) 2 named Hempton and Pudding Norton. Between 2000 and 3 THE CHAIR: Good morning, everyone. Good morning, 3 2002, you were also appointed an Honorary Canon. In 4 Ms Scolding. 4 2002, you were made an assistant curate in a church in 5 MS SCOLDING: Good morning, chair and panel. This morning, 5 London. Between 2003 and 2010, you were the 6 the first witness we are going to hear from is 6 residentiary -- a residentiary canon at 7 Bishop Martin Warner. 7 St Paul's Cathedral, and then you were elected the 8 BISHOP MARTIN WARNER (sworn) 8 suffragan Bishop of Whitby in 2010 and became the Bishop 9 Examination by MS SCOLDING 9 of Chichester in 2012; is that right? 10 MS SCOLDING: Bishop Martin, I understand that that is the 10 A. Yes. 11 nomenclature I am to use during the course of your 11 Q. We have heard a little bit about Chichester so we know 12 evidence; is that correct? 12 it is quite a large diocese and it is quite rural in 13 A. Thank you, yes. 13 nature. Before your appointment as the diocesan bishop, 14 Q. Chair and panel, there is a statement from Bishop Martin 14 what did you know about Chichester? 15 behind tab 1 of your bundles that you should have in 15 A. I didn't know the diocese geographically particularly 16 front of you. The statement, Paul, is ACE026143. The 16 well, but while I was at Walsingham a number of parishes 17 statement will be placed on the website as soon as 17 from the Diocese of Chichester used to come as pilgrims, 18 possible thereafter. 18 so I knew quite a lot of people from the area and I had 19 Bishop Martin, have you had a chance to read your 19 one or two friends who lived in Chichester whom I'd 20 witness statement recently? 20 visit socially, but I didn't know very much more about 21 A. Yes, I have. 21 the structures or internal life of the diocese. 22 Q. There is a signature on page 76 which is blocked out, so 22 Q. Thank you. So the Archepiscopal Visitation was in 23 I don't need to ask you to turn to it, but is the 23 progress whilst you were being appointed, so to speak. 24 witness statement true, to the best of your knowledge 24 What were you told about the issues surrounding 25 and belief? 25 safeguarding in Chichester prior to your appointment and Page 1 Page 3 1 A. It is. 1 during the course of your appointment? 2 Q. Just a few housekeeping matters. Firstly, the evidence 2 A. I wasn't given very much detailed information about 3 that you are going to give is not a test of memory, so 3 that, other than that it was a major issue in the life 4 please do tell the inquiry if you can't remember or if 4 of the diocese, that the visitation was enquiring into 5 you need to refer to some notes, which you are free to 5 it specifically, and in the briefing that I had after it 6 do during the course of this hearing? 6 was decided that I was the candidate for this 7 A. Thank you. 7 appointment, the archbishop's appointment secretary 8 Q. Secondly, we will be having a break after about an hour 8 simply described the diocese as a "basket case", and 9 and a quarter. However, you are free to request a break 9 that registered very clearly in my mind at a number of 10 at any time before that, if you need it. 10 levels, but safeguarding was the prominent headline at 11 The other matter is, obviously we have a very long 11 that time. 12 and detailed statement from you. I am not going to be 12 Q. Prior to becoming Bishop of Chichester, what experience 13 taking you through every single paragraph of that. I am 13 in safeguarding or child protection had you had? 14 going to be running through what could be called the 14 A. I'd had no formal training there, but particularly while 15 main issues which arise from your witness statement. 15 I was at Walsingham, because we saw a large number of 16 A. Thank you. 16 children and young people coming on pilgrimage, we had 17 Q. Bishop Martin, you are the current Bishop of Chichester 17 had to be attentive to the broad issues of children's 18 and your career history is set out at paragraphs 4 to 8 18 welfare. Some of them were resident with us. We also 19 of your witness statement. 19 ran a summer camp, a pilgrimage, for young people and 20 A. Yes. 20 children, and during that time I'd been, I suppose, 21 Q. But just briefly, you were ordained as a deacon in 1984 21 informed about best practice by our education officer 22 and a priest in 1985. You were team vicar for five 22 who had come from working in the primary school sector. 23 years of a church in Leicester before then being 23 Then, when I was at St Paul's, as I said again in my 24 appointed the priest administrator of the Shrine of 24 witness statement, issues of dealing with a school 25 Our Lady of Walsingham between 1993 and 2002. You were 25 attached to the cathedral, where the choristers, but Page 2 Page 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Epiq Europe Ltd www.epiqglobal.com 8th Floor, 165 Fleet Street (+44)207 4041400 [email protected] London EC4A 2DY Day 8 IICSA Inquiry - Chichester 14 March 2018 1 many other children, were educated, raised issues about 1 interview for selection to be a Bishop of Chichester? 2 how those things were managed more formally. I was also 2 A. Yes, there was a very specific question. It was the 3 a governor of a prep school where, again, similar issues 3 last question I was asked from the Archbishop of York 4 were raised. 4 about the whole question of safeguarding and how I would 5 In other areas of vulnerable adults, the shrine has 5 approach it in the Diocese of Chichester. 6 a large ministry to the sick and handicapped, those who 6 Q. Upon your appointment, you say you were briefed firstly 7 are -- in all sorts of ways, and, therefore, attention 7 by, obviously, the registrar, but also by other 8 to the care of those people was something that was part 8 individuals within Chichester, about the breakdown in 9 of our work, but there was no formal training that I'd 9 the relationship of trust between the diocese and 10 received. 10 East Sussex County Council. You set this out at 11 Q. Had you had any specific training from the church about 11 paragraph 136 of your witness statement. You also note 12 managing and dealing with adult survivors of abuse 12 at paragraphs 138 and 139 that damaged working 13 before you arrived in Chichester? 13 relationship between senior members of clergy upon your 14 A. No. 14 appointment, in particular the damaged relationship 15 Q. Had you had any training which -- I think we will come 15 between bishop -- that there had been between 16 on to discuss the current training you have now had. 16 Bishop Wallace and Bishop Hind, and Bishop Wallace also 17 Had you had any training that looks like anything that 17 felt that Bishop Mark, who was, and is, the Bishop of 18 you've now had in respect of managing a diocese in 18 Horsham, you identify that Bishop Wallace identified 19 respect of safeguarding? 19 a sense of criticism. 20 A. No. 20 So you arrive in a diocese where there is lack of 21 Q. Prior to becoming Bishop of Chichester, had you had any 21 trust between yourself and the statutory authorities and 22 experience in what I think management consultants would 22 lack of trust between the staff amongst themselves. 23 call change management, or kind of using your leadership 23 Firstly, in respect of local authorities, what steps did 24 to alter the way that people did their work? 24 you take to repair the diocesan relationship with them? 25 I apologise for such a jargon term -- 25 You set this out at paragraph 140 and onwards of your Page 5 Page 7 1 A. Not at all. 1 witness statement? 2 Q. It's the easiest way to describe it. 2 A. Yes. That came -- in this strange hinterland, if I may 3 A. Not at all. In the time I was at Walsingham, we did 3 just describe it, technically, one becomes the bishop 4 undergo a process of change management. When I arrived, 4 after the confirmation of election, which happened for 5 the accounts were still done in pen and ink. When 5 me on 2 July. I didn't actually move to Chichester 6 I left, we had moved to computerisation. So there was 6 until August, but of course began being briefed in that 7 some change management needed there. As we expanded the 7 time, and so it was only gradually that I realised the 8 work, change management again.