Interview with Thomas M. Foglietta, Esq. June 24, 1980 The first question is how did your father come to be a Republican leader in Philadelphia and what role did he play in that regard? Well, I would think that he became a leader in Philadelphia because at that time when my family first came to this country the Republican pa±y was the party in power. My grandmother and grandfather came here as teenagers in the 1870's or early 1880's and they were married here in Philadelphia and they always used to tell me that they got married in Independence Hall because City Hall was not completed yet and — again, in those days if you were Catholic you could not have only a religious ceremony, you had to have a religious ceremony and a civil ceremony. So they had to go to Independence Hall to be married. And I think that what evolved was the community leader was the person who became involved in politics and in those days there wasn't really a Democratic party to speak of, so my dad went on to become not only the leader of his family, because he was the oldest of five children when his father was killed in a bicycle accident in about 1901. He then had to leave school and go to work. He worked in those days in Center City because as you know, although we lived in South Philadelphia and he lived in South Philadelphia — the family lived on Climber Street, which is the first street below Fitzvjater — that ,is the first street of South Philadelphia, where Center City ends. And the first street of the beginning of the Italo-American community in South Philadelphia is Fitzwater street and that is the street that we are talking about. So his employment then was in Center City. He started working as a newsboy at a newsstand in the Bourse Building at 5th between Market and Chestnut. And he knew those buildings inside out. He started working when he was about 12 years old. I guess the influence of the men that he met in those days in the Stock Exchange and that was the center of business and professional activity in Philadelphia. There's nothing west of that — 5th and:.Market was the hub. And he became very familiar wiih the offices and the buildings aid all the people there and I guess that was the inspiration that he had to get involved in politics. And he then became a leader of his family, of his neighborhood, and his community. And I think that is how he got started in the Republican party in politics. (WMP: He never thought of any other party?) No. He was approached many times as you well know. In 1951 when he had the fall-out with the Republican leadership Dick Dilworth approached him and Dick Dilworth wanted him to become a Democrat and to run as a Democrat for Council. He would not do it. Before that, Jack Kelly, Sr., approached him in the 1930's. This was even prior to Barrett's rise in politics. In the 1930's I remember Jack Kelly, Sr., coming to my home on two or three occasions trying to talk my Dad into becoming the Democratic leader of south Philadelphia. And he didn't want to do it even then. He remained a Republican all his life. (WMP: So you still are a Republican?) I still am a registered Republican, although I supported Bill Green in last year's election. Second question — tell us a little about the South Philadelphia neighborhood in those days. I don't remember it very well, but from what I remember it is pretty much like it is today. It Is a substantial basically middle-class economic area in which the family is the crucial nucleus of everything. Everything revolves around the family. This is true of the Italian sections of South Philadelphia, in the Jewish, Irish, Polish, and the Black sections of South Philadelphia. The family is the focal point around which JLs then built the community and all of South Philadelphia. And it is still that way today. I think the people are more affluent today than they were 25 or 30 years ago. The sons and daughters of the fathers who then worked in tailor shops and who worked as artisans are now for the most part doctors and lawyers and accountants. But other than that I think basically the communities are pretty much the same. (WMP: Do you think it is going to stay thht way?) I think it is because now not only are the families that have been there staying there but new people are coming back in the neighborhood. Young people who are just getting married are now coming back in the neighborhood and establish 3. their homes. A perfect example is my nephew. My nephew, who is a lawyer now and who is about 29 or 30 years of age,., got married two or three years ago and purchased the home of my grandmother and grandfather that they purchased on Cliburn Street when they first came to this country from Italy. And remodeled it and is now living in that house. So you have that kind of an influx of young people coming back to a neighborhood. I think that the reason for it is a new look on life — the idea of the suburbs and the outlying areas is no longer fashionable and it is now being in Center City where the crossroads of civilization is. It has always been. The political center of the city, the cultural center, the economic center, and the social center is Center City. Next question — did your father urge you to run for City Council in 1955? Well, it was a mutual agreement rather than anybody urging. He had been in City Council until 1951 when he was betrayed by the leaders of the Republican party in the city of Philadelphia, namely, William F. Meade and Morton Whitkin. Remember those characters? And they forced him off the ticket by using the good offices of a good man, Daniel Poling, who was their candidate for mayor in 1951. And he went along for the good of the city of Philadelphia with what Dr. Poling requested but it was a conspiracy by Whitkin and Meade just to get him out of politics. He was pretty well knocked out of the box in 1951. And the two of us sort of bided our time between 1951 to 1955 and when '55 rolled around I made the attempt to run for office on behalf of my Dad and the rest of my family and was successful at it. (BF: What sort of support did you get from the Republicans?) I was supported then by one faction of the Republican party which was by Austin Meehan. But\Iywas*ropp6sedrby the Whitkins and the Meades'and all the rest of the Republican party in Philadelphia. (BF: How were you able to win then?) I did get support from Aus Meehan and he was kind of powerful by 1955, but then we also had a tremendous amount of effort on behalf of a young campaign team. I had been involved in sports and had coached teams and managed teams and I got some young people working in the campaign and I had just finished my schooling and I had lots of people I had known in school and I formulated a very energetic and active campaign. And we were able to outwork the rest of the candidates. Plus we were dark horses, so to speak. We were not expected to have any chance whatsoever of winning. We just sort of parlayed the overconfidence of the other candidates to our advantage. Albert M. Greenfield bet someone $500 to $1 that I would lose the election and he lost the bet. Fourth question — did you find that being the youngest person ever elected to City Council a handicap or an advantage I think it was a combination of the two. It was an advantage in that I was young and active in so many important things and getting a good start and it also gave me the tremendous advantage of meeting people — not only meeting, but working wi-th on a day-to-day basis — people like Dick Dilworth and Joe Clark — not Joe Clark so much because he had run for the Senate by then. But Dick Dilworth and many people who were on-.-'his-'team, including you, Walter, and Jim Finnegan and Bill Green, Sr., and Jim Clark, and Aus Meehan. But basically in the organization of the Democratic party and the government that Dick Dilworth had put together. He had some very competent people that I got to know at a young age and I sort of formulated and implanted in my mind ideas for the future of Philadelphia. Getting to know Harry Batten, for instance, and I worked with Mr. Batten almost on a daily basis on the development of Society Hill. I was very close to him. I was young enough to see those things and watch them come into effect and actually become realities. People now talk about Queen Village as something new, for instance, and I remember in 1958 and 1959 walking the streets of Queen Village with Harry Batten and having him point out the historically valuable houses in Queen Village and I remember him telling me that there were more architecturally valuable houses in Queen Village than there were in Society Hill, by far.