1 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA 2 AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES : CIVIL ACTION 3 UNION, ET AL : : 4 PLAINTIFF : : 5 : VS. : 6 : : 7 ALBERTO R. GONZALES, : IN HIS OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS : 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE : UNITED STATES : 9 : DEFENDANT : NO. 98-05591 10 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2006 11 COURTROOM 17-A PHILADELPHIA, PA 19106 12 ___________________________________________________ BEFORE THE HONORABLE LOWELL A. REED, JR. SJ 13 _______________________________________________________ NON-JURY TRIAL 14 DAY 2 ______________________________________________________ 15 APPEARANCES: 16 CHRISTOPHER A. HANSEN, ESQUIRE KATHERINE MARSHALL, ESQUIRE 17 JEROEN VAN KWAWEGEN, ESQUIRE ADEN J. FINE, ESQUIRE 18 BEN WIZNER, ESQUIRE CATHERINE CRUMP, ESQUIRE 19 AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION FOUNDATION 125 BROAD STREET, 18TH FLOOR 20 NEW YORK, NY 10004-2400 (212)549-2606 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS 21 SUZANNE R. WHITE, CM 22 FEDERAL CERTIFIED REALTIME REPORTER FIRST FLOOR U. S. COURTHOUSE 23 601 MARKET STREET PHILADELPHIA, PA. 19106 24 (215)627-1882 PROCEEDINGS RECORDED BY STENOTYPE-COMPUTER, 25 TRANSCRIPT PRODUCED BY COMPUTER-AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 2 1 APPEARANCES: (CONTINUED) 2 CHRISTOPHER HARRIS, ESQUIRE BENJAMIN SAHL, ESQUIRE 3 JEROEN VAN KWAWEGEN, ESQ. ADDISON F. GOLLODAY, ESQ. 4 KATHARINE MARSHALL, ESQUIRE LATHAM & WATKINS 5 53RD AT THIRD, 885 3RD AVENUE SUITE 1000 6 NEW YORK, NY 10022 (212) 906-1200 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS 7 8 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL DIVISION 9 RAPHAEL O. GOMEZ, ESQUIRE ERIC J. BEANE, ESQUIRE 10 KENNETH E. SEALLS, ESQUIRE TAMARA ULRICH, ESQUIRE 11 JOEL MCELVAIN, ESQUIRE JAMES TODD, ESQUIRE 12 ERIC J. BEANE, ESQUIRE ISAAC R. CAMPBELL, ESQUIRE 13 ROOM 6144 20 MASSACHUSETTS AVENUE, NW 14 WASHINGTON, DC 20530 (202)514-1318 FOR THE DEFENDANT 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 (THE CLERK OPENS COURT.) 2 THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. 3 ALL COUNSEL: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. 4 THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME TO BE SEATED. 5 ONE PRELIMINARY MATTER BEFORE WE RESUME 6 THE TESTIMONY. THE WITNESS IS WELCOME TO COME UP AT HER 7 CONVENIENCE. WE HAVE TELEPHONED THE OFFICES OF COUNSEL 8 FOR THE TWO PARTIES WHO FILED MOTIONS FOR PROTECTIVE 9 ORDER IN THE THIRD-PARTY DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPTS. WE 10 REACHED ONE OF THEM PERSONALLY. THAT WAS THE LOCAL 11 COUNSEL FOR THE ONE ORGANIZATION. OTHER COUNSEL IS 12 PROBABLY STILL GETTING OUT OF BED IN OREGON. WE LEFT A 13 PHONE MESSAGE WITH HIM. WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY LOCAL 14 COUNSEL FOR THAT CLIENT SO FAR. THE DOCUMENT WAS FILED 15 BY OREGON COUNSEL. THE MESSAGE WE LEFT WAS, UNLESS THE 16 PARTIES ARE ABLE TO WORK IT OUT BEFORE THEN, WE ARE 17 HAVING A HEARING AT 1:30 IN THE AFTERNOON ON WEDNESDAY 18 THIS WEEK, TOMORROW. 19 THAT IS THE MESSAGE WE LEFT. I JUST 20 THOUGHT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW THAT. 21 WE HAVE RECEIVED A PROPOSED STIPULATION 22 FROM MASTER CARD, I GUESS IT IS, WITH A REDACTED COPY OF 23 THE DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT AND EXHIBITS, I ASSUME. IT'S 24 A LONG DOCUMENT. WE DID NOT HAVE TIME TO PRINT IT OUT 25 THIS MORNING. MY QUESTION IS, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE 4 1 STIPULATION IS ONLY BETWEEN THE DEPONENT COMPANY AND THE 2 PLAINTIFF AND STANDS IN PLACE OF THE DESIGNATIONS. THE 3 DOCUMENT AS REDACTED -- THE DOCUMENTS ATTACHED TO THE 4 STIPULATION ARE REDACTED VERSIONS OF WHAT WAS PROPOSED 5 TO BE USED FOR A SURROGATE TO TESTIFY IN THE COURSE OF 6 THE TRIAL. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER DEFENSE HAS SEEN THAT 7 MATERIAL OR HAS AGREED TO IT, OR IF THEY EVEN KNOW WHAT 8 I'M DESCRIBING. 9 I WILL TELL YOU WHAT. LET ME GET THIS 10 STRAIGHT. THE DOCUMENT NUMBER 348, WHICH IS A 11 STIPULATION, SUPPOSED TO BE A STIPULATION -- OH, I'M 12 SORRY. IT LOOKS AS IF THE DEFENDANT HAS ALREADY SIGNED 13 OFF ON IT. 14 MR. GOMEZ: YES, SIR. 15 THE COURT: THAT SOLVES THAT ONE. WE 16 HAVE ONE WITNESS WE CAN USE. 17 THE DOCUMENT WAS A LITTLE BIT OBTUSE OR I 18 WAS. 19 WE WILL PROCEED WITH OUR TESTIMONY. 20 (LORRIE FAITH CRANOR, PLAINTIFF WITNESS, 21 RETAKES THE STAND.) 22 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION.) 23 THE COURT: MR. LANG IS LEAVING. THE 24 TRIAL WILL NOW DECOMPOSE. 25 YOU MAY PROCEED. 5 1 MR. FINE: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. 2 DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED) 3 BY MR. FINE: 4 Q. GOOD MORNING, DR. CRANOR. 5 A. GOOD MORNING. 6 THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, DR. CRANOR. 7 THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING. 8 BY MR. FINE: 9 Q. YESTERDAY WHEN WE BROKE, YOU HAD JUST BEEN 10 DESCRIBING THE MONITORING AND REPORTING FEATURES OF 11 INTERNET FILTERING SOFTWARE. YOU HAD ALSO MENTIONED 12 SOMETHING THAT YOU REFERRED TO AS TIME MANAGEMENT 13 ASPECTS OF THE SOFTWARE. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN 14 BY TIME MANAGEMENT? 15 A. YES. A LOT OF THE INTERNET FILTERING SOFTWARE 16 INCLUDES FEATURES THAT LETS PARENTS SET UP SPECIFIC 17 AMOUNTS OF TIME OR TIMES OF DAY WHEN THEIR CHILDREN CAN 18 USE THE INTERNET, SO THEY CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, A TIME 19 BUDGET AND SAY, YOU CAN'T USE THE INTERNET MORE THAN AN 20 HOUR A DAY, OR FIVE HOURS A WEEK, OR WHATEVER NUMBER 21 THEY WANT TO SET UP, OR THEY CAN SET SPECIFIC TIMES WHEN 22 IT IS ALLOWED, LIKE 3 TO 5 PM, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE 23 LINES. 24 Q. CAN THEY DETERMINE WHICH DAYS OF THE WEEK? 25 A. YES, YES. SOME OF THE SOFTWARE ALLOWS YOU TO 6 1 SAY, YOU KNOW 3 TO 5 ON TUESDAYS AND 4 TO 7 ON 2 WEDNESDAYS OR WHATEVER PARTICULAR SCHEDULE SUITS YOUR 3 NEEDS. 4 Q. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS FEATURE? 5 A. THIS IS USEFUL FOR LIMITING THE AMOUNT OF TIME 6 CHILDREN SPEND ONLINE, BUT ALSO THE TIME OF DAY FEATURES 7 ARE OFTEN USED BY PARENTS WHO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE 8 CHILDREN ONLY USE THE INTERNET WHEN THEY ARE AT HOME. 9 Q. AND I WANT TO NOW TURN YOUR ATTENTION -- FIRST 10 OF ALL, WE ARE GOING TO SWITCH SUBJECTS NOW. TELL US -- 11 JUST BACK UP TO REALLY SQUARE ONE. WHAT IS THE 12 DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WORLDWIDE WEB AND THE INTERNET? 13 A. THE WORLDWIDE WEB IS A PART OF THE INTERNET. 14 THE INTERNET IS THE BIGGER THING, AND THE WORLDWIDE WEB 15 IS A COLLECTION OF DOCUMENTS THAT ARE LINKED AND THAT 16 PEOPLE CAN ACCESS USING A PARTICULAR PROTOCOL KNOWN AS 17 THE HTTP PROTOCOL. 18 Q. AND CAN FILTERING PRODUCTS BE USED BY PARENTS TO 19 PREVENT CHILDREN FROM ACCESSING PARTS OF THE INTERNET 20 OTHER THAN THE WORLDWIDE WEB? 21 A. YES, THEY CAN. MOST OF THEM HAVE CAPABILITIES 22 OF FILTERING OTHER THINGS, SUCH AS E-MAIL, OR CHAT, OR 23 INSTANT MESSAGING. SOME OF THEM WILL EVEN ALLOW YOU TO 24 FILTER THINGS LIKE PEER-TO-PEER OR, IN FACT, ANY 25 ARBITRARY APPLICATION THAT RUNS ON THE INTERNET. 7 1 Q. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN THAT TO US A 2 LITTLE BIT MORE. USE E-MAIL AND I-M AS AN EXAMPLE. HOW 3 DOES A FILTER WORK? 4 THE COURT: LET THE RECORD SHOW I-M 5 MEANS, WHAT, INSTANT MESSAGING? 6 MR. FINE: YES. 7 THE WITNESS: YES. SO PARENTS CAN EITHER 8 ALLOW OR BLOCK IN ITS ENTIRETY. THEY MIGHT SAY THIS 9 CHILD CANNOT USE E-MAIL PERIOD OR CANNOT USE INSTANT 10 MESSAGING OR THEY CAN HAVE A MORE FINE-GRAINED CONTROL, 11 WHERE THEY MIGHT ALLOW A SPECIFIC LIST OF CORRESPONDENTS 12 THAT A CHILD CAN COMMUNICATE WITH, OR THEY MIGHT HAVE A 13 LIST OF PEOPLE THAT THEY CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH. THEY 14 ALSO -- SOME OF THE FILTERS WILL SCREEN FOR CERTAIN KEY 15 WORDS IN E-MAIL OR NOT ALLOW PICTURES TO COME THROUGH ON 16 THE E-MAIL. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT 17 CONFIGURATIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE. 18 Q. DO FILTERING PRODUCTS HAVE ANY FEATURES THAT 19 PERMIT PARENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR CHILDREN DO NOT 20 TRANSMIT PERSONAL INFORMATION? 21 A. YES. SOME OF THE PRODUCTS ALLOW PARENTS TO PUT 22 IN A LIST OF PERSONAL INFORMATION, SUCH AS THE CHILD'S 23 FULL NAME OR THEIR HOME ADDRESS OR HOME PHONE NUMBER, 24 AND THE FILTER WILL CHECK TO SEE IF THE CHILD IS 25 TRANSMITTING ANY OF THAT INFORMATION AND, IF THEY ARE, 8 1 IT WILL BLOCK IT. 2 Q. AND WHAT IF THE CHILD ADVERTENTLY TRIES TO SEND 3 SOMEONE THEIR HOME ADDRESS, WHAT WILL HAPPEN? 4 A. SO, IF THIS FILTER IS ENGAGED, THEN BASICALLY IT 5 WILL STOP THE TRANSMISSION, DEPENDING ON THE SOFTWARE. 6 IT MAY WARN THE CHILD ABOUT IT OR IT MAY JUST BLOCK THE 7 TRANSMISSION. 8 Q. I WANT TO NOW ASK YOU -- WE HAVE BEEN TALKING 9 ABOUT WHAT FILTERING PRODUCTS ARE AND WHAT THEY DO. HOW 10 DOES A PARENT GO ABOUT OBTAINING A FILTERING PRODUCT? 11 A. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS OF OBTAINING THE 12 PRODUCT. YOU CAN GO TO YOUR LOCAL SOFTWARE STORE AND 13 BUY A BOX WITH THE PRODUCT IN IT. YOU CAN GO TO THE 14 COMPANY'S WEBSITE AND DOWNLOAD THE PRODUCT, OR SOME OF 15 THEM ARE SUBSCRIPTION BASED. AND SO YOUR INTERNET 16 SERVICE PROVIDER ACTUALLY HAS THE FILTERING CAPABILITY 17 BUILT IN, AND SO USUALLY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS EITHER 18 CALL THE ISP OR GO TO A PLACE ON THE WEBSITE WHERE YOU 19 CAN ACTIVATE IT.