November 9, 1993 Alberta Hansard 1365 Legislative Assembly of Alberta service audits, efficiency audits would also come to the fore and that one of the issues addressed to any of the potential candidates Title: Tuesday, November 9, 1993 8:00 p.m. would be their willingness to consider those audits, as we Date: 93/11/09 certainly view them as being a way of effectively saving taxpayer [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] dollars without the necessity of some of the across-the-board cuts that we have witnessed. MR. SPEAKER: Please be seated. We view value-for-service audits as having had a very illustri- ous background. If we look at the state of Texas, for example, head: Government Motions and its performance reviews, we see there that it has saved literally billions of dollars, dollars that can then go to provide Auditor General Search Committee essential services without the necessity of cuts. As I say, we view 22. Moved by Mr. Kowalski: this as a very positive step, that the government has moved Be it resolved that forward with this motion and has made it an all-party procedure. (1) A select special Auditor General search committee of But we hope, then, that the members of this committee will look the Legislative Assembly of Alberta be appointed with favour on the issue of value-for-service audits or efficiency consisting of the following members, namely Mr. Ron audits and would use this as part of the criteria for choosing an Hierath, chairman, Mr. Frank Bruseker, Mr. Victor Auditor General. Doerksen, Mrs. Yvonne Fritz, Mr. Gary Friedel, and We would hope as well that the candidate that would emerge Dr. Don Massey for the purpose of inviting applications for Auditor General would have a feel that management letters, for the position of Auditor General and to recommend for example, should be available to the Public Accounts Commit- to the Assembly the applicant it considers most suitable tee, because these management letters provide a pretty good for appointment to that position. overview of the problems that the Auditor perceives in various (2) The chairman and members of the committee shall entities and within departments. These certainly, then, would be paid in accordance with the schedule of category provide the Public Accounts Committee with the background with A committees provided in Members' Services which to address better perceived problems within departments or Committee Order 10/89. various entities. (3) Reasonable disbursements by the committee for We also would hope that the Auditor General would be very advertising, staff assistance, equipment and sup- proactive in terms of assessing and measuring the performance plies, rent, travel, and other expenditures necessary indicators that will emerge with the business plans that have been for the effective conduct of its responsibilities shall proposed by this government. The ability of the government, be paid subject to the approval of the chairman. then, to deliver with these business programs depends very much (4) In carrying out its responsibilities, the committee on the ability of the Auditor General to assess the efficacy of may with the concurrence of the head of the de- those performance indicators. Are they high enough? Has the partment utilize the services of members of the department in question set goals that are really almost out of their grasp so they have to force themselves to reach it? Are they public service employed in that department or of using their resources efficiently? Mr. Speaker, we would hope the staff employed by the Assembly. that he would look at both the context of the departments, the (5) The committee may without leave of the Assembly performance indicators, and not only rely on the systems in place sit during a period when the Assembly is for assessing the performance of those departments, but it would adjourned. also then assess the system itself; that is, value-for-money audits. (6) When its work has been completed, the committee So I certainly speak in favour of this motion, as I'm sure many shall report to the Assembly if it is then sitting. of my colleagues will as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During a period when the Assembly is adjourned, the committee may release its report by depositing MR. BRUSEKER: Just speaking briefly to the motion, Mr. a copy with the Clerk and forwarding a copy to Speaker, I too will be voting in support of the motion. I'm not each member of the Assembly. sure whether this is a question for now or for later, but I wanted to flag the issue. The issue that I think is of concern is that when MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, on the Order Paper on page 2 we go to review individuals for this position, accept résumés and is Motion 22. Oral notice was given yesterday, and when it was so forth, I hope that the committee will be able to work advertis- introduced by way of oral notice, I did read into Hansard the ing on a Canada-wide basis. I think that in order to get the best complete motion. Essentially what it does is set up a select individual for this position, to be able to address the concerns that special Auditor General search committee of the Legislative have been raised I think by a variety of Members in the Legisla- Assembly. It's a multiparty bipartisan committee who has the tive Assembly, particularly those that have been on the Public instruction now to begin the search for a new Auditor General. Accounts Committee in the past, we want to make sure that we The motion itself is all inclusive and covers all the details. So I have the best individual in the position. So from that standpoint would ask for support of the Assembly so that we might be able I'm hoping that under section 3, I guess, of the motion, we be to proceed with this biparty approach. allowed the opportunity to advertise not only in this province but right across the country so that we get the best individual. MR. SPEAKER: Is the Assembly ready for the question? The issues of the past that have given rise to some of the The hon. Member for Edmonton-Whitemud. difficulties that we've had I believe in part have been due to the fact that the Auditor General perhaps has not been as forthright – DR. PERCY: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, it is a step forward that not as forthright perhaps but as aggressive – as necessary in the the government has brought forward this motion, has set up an past by working through efficiency audits, as the hon. Member for all-party committee to select a new Auditor General. One would Edmonton-Whitemud has referred to, by acting in a preventative hope in the context of those discussions that the issue of value-for- fashion rather than in a reactive fashion. 1366 Alberta Hansard November 9, 1993 So, Mr. Speaker, I do support the motion. In fact, I must able. We have to be the best stewards that we possibly can be confess that I rather look forward to the situation. It'll be an with the taxpayers' dollars. They are, after all, the lifeblood of interesting experience, I think, for those of us who are named as the programs that we administer on behalf of Albertans. the six Members of the Legislative Assembly to be involved with In identifying who would be a suitable Auditor General, an all- this committee. I think it will be somewhat interesting. I've party committee I think is certainly the best way to go, and I never had the opportunity to do this before and look forward to it applaud the member for bringing this forward. This certainly is along with my colleague from Edmonton-Mill Woods. So I look a step in the right direction. When I start to review in my own forward to this subcommittee, I guess, moving into action. businesses what I can do better to be more efficient, I always look at my financial statements. When I look at my financial state- MR. N. TAYLOR: This may be more of a question to the hon. ments, I scrutinize: where are we spending more money, where member than anything else. The motion says that the select did we make money, where have we gone wrong? In this Auditor General committee be resolved, and business of government, when we look at the public accounts – (6) When its work has been completed, the Committee shall report and I happen to sit on the Public Accounts Committee, Mr. to the Assembly if it is then sitting. During a period when the Speaker – I find it a very useful exercise and quite an interesting Assembly is adjourned experience. It's one that the Auditor General plays an important which will be a good likelihood part in, and I think that an all-party committee to choose that the committee may release its report by depositing a copy with Auditor General is certainly one that I could support. the Clerk and forwarding a copy to each Member of the The Auditor General that we are going to choose is going to be Assembly. fresh and have new ideas, one that is energetic and one that I was just wondering in closing the debate or maybe down the almost makes me think of when I first got elected. Of course, I road whether the hon. Deputy Premier interprets that clause as was so full of energy and enthusiasm and wanted to get at the job.