Harry sydneiDb:, . 19th lune, 1911. 8677. You could not have that type of construc­ :-:69 2 . J II tInt case the Malvern cars cannot be tion with the conduit system of eJectric traction?~ l:;.·ri on those tracks?-That is so. That is so. 8693. So Illat it would be better, in order to 8678. What is your opinion 3S to the most effec­ hcilitate through traffic from the Melbourne system tive electric system in operation to-day for tram­ to your syst~m, to have a type of car which could ways ?-The most effective undoubtedly is the over- nm on both tracks ?~-Yes. head trolly system. 8694. Your carS represent a capital value of 8679. Would you state what advantages that £:w,ooo at the present time?-That is true, but system possesses over any other ?-My chief reason the only portion of the cars that would need to be for preference is perhaps its lower capital cost, altered would be the body, which represents, and that is a very important reason. Another is roughly, 50 per cent., so that the loss would really that it is easily maintained; much more so than be £ ro,ooo--;that is, assuming that the bodies the conduit. It is also freer from qreakdown. would have M be scrapped entirely. 8680. I suppose you could readily locate anr­ 8695. Unless you could sell them ?--That is so. thing that goes wrong and get at it?-That is so. 8696 .. Perhaps the' Adelaide, or some other sys­ 868I. Have you had anv nersonal exoerience of tem, might take them, when the loss might not ex­ the conduit svstem ?-None.' I have 'never been ceed £5,000 ?~That might be so. connected with a tramway operated on the conduit 8691. Under the circumstances I have indicate?, system. I have, however, seen it at Bournemouth. do rou consider it wise for further cars to be burlt 8682. Is it a fact that that system has been of the type you are llsing at present ?--I should altered ?-I have heard so recently. I read it in not think it wise to do that if there is reasonable the technical papers. I do not know why. When ground for the assumption that you start with, that I was at Bournemouth I saw the engine~!" in con­ the present track centres may be retained for a nexion with it, and it was operating satisfactorily. ne\\" system. The sy.stem has a central slot. The tramway runs· 8698. \\-'c have been advised by one expert, ·Mr. within half a mile or a quarter of a mile of the 'Nilson, of London, that it is possible that they sea. rna \' be retained. but we have no definite report 8683. Did you confer with the engineer there as froin him to that effect at the present time. Mr. to the difficulties he might have in running th<!t Duncan, who gave evidence this morning, was .also system ?-At that time it had not been in OpeT'l­ of opinion that it may be ,possible, so that it prob­ tion very long, and they had not had any gre:lt ably warrants a proper investigation. Looking at difficulties other than the ordinary preliminary one5 it f~om the point of view that those conduits would inevitable to a new system, but it is some time prohably be used, is it advisable to build any more since I saw it. It seemed then to be a thoroughly CJrs of your type ?-1 think not. Of cour;;e, in a satisfactory solution of the system. general system, even supposing the existing centres 8684. What sort of a town is Bournemouth ?-­ were maintained where the cable tracks now are, It is a very pretty town, in which resthetic con· I think there would be still room in certain suburbs siderations would naurally carry great weight. It to keep cars of our present width on the routes not has a fairly large population. It has been grow­ coming into the city. ing rapidly, and is a good-sized place at the present time. The population I should think 8699. At any rate, I presume, you would con­ would be about 100,000 to 120,000. The streets sent to this, that the building of cars which could are very narrow. Those in the central part of the not run upon the tracks of Melbourne as now dis­ . town are considerably less than a chain. posed. should not be contillued without careful COIl­ 8685. So th::lt it became very important indeed sideration in each case ?-Certainly. to keep the wires out of those streets?-Yes; I 8700. By IIf,. Solly.-Do you how that a Rail­ take it that the principal reason that operat~d there way Act was p.assed last year that gives powers to was the anuearance of the town. the other councils, Hawthorn and Kew, to go on 8686. \'Vas there much mud ?-No. It is a with their construction ?-I did not know that they sandy place, and has a good climate. had any legal power given them to construct those 8687. Are you acquainted with the conduit sys· lines. I thought they were at present waiting for tem as being carried on in the city of London at that power. the present time ?-No, I have not" seen that. 810r. An Act was passed, and one of the clauses 8688. Are you aware that the conduit system in that Bill was that the cars should be so con­ was in operation in Berlin, and that it has been structed to meet with the uniform system of the aba?doncd with the exception of abo,!t 200 yards? metropolis of Melbourne. That condition is not in -1\0. your requirements at all ?-No. 8689. What do you consider the best means of 8702. You could construct any ~nape of car you linking up the Malvern svstem with the city? At wish?-Yes. present you now bring your traffic down to' ;High­ 8i03. By Mr. C hampio1Z.-Can you tell us what street, and the people have to leave your cars, an1 was the consumption of power per car mile on your get into the Chapel-street cars if they want to go system ?-The present rate of consumption is 1.469 to Melbourne ?-Of course, if the existing cabl\:" units per car mile, but for the whole year it has system were electrified, or were made unifOrm, so been 1. 517 units. that our cars could run right through, it seems tt"> 8704. Wh,at is the horse-power of your motor?­ me that a proper thing would be to conned at· St. There are two motors on each car of 32 h. p. each_ Kilc1a-road. 87°5. What is the steepest gradient on your line? 8690. Your cars will not run on the present cable -One in twenty. tracks ?-As a matter of fact, there would not be 8706. What speed can you attain in negotiating sufficient clearance. that gradient?-We could easily go 9 or 10 miles 8691. You have twenty cars. Supposing it could an hour. be shown that the present cable tunnels can be used 87°7. Supposing that gradients were increased as electric conduits-the tracks in Melbourne will to I in 16, what speed could you attain on it?­ remain as they are, except' that the rails' will be With our !present motors and equipment, I imagine increased in weight. The present disposition of it would come down to about 7 miles an hour. That tracks will remain?-Yes. is only an opinion. BWl'. Sydney' ,Dix. 1!Itb Jiltie; 1011. 494 8708. One in :r6 is about the ruling gradient in present are in exCess of th~irs (-Our costs are the city of ~Melbourne. It is the steepest you will nearly as possible ld. more than that. ftnd in. Melbourne or suburbs withir 5 or 6 miles. 8721. Their costs include everything, I think, What would you consiqer a limit of speed in nego­ whereas yours appear no~ to?-These costs include tiatihl:(a gradient of that kind with a motor pro­ everything except interest and depreciation. perly designed to overcome the obstacle r-There 8722. ,Wh~t is your average speed?:-Our schedule is, scientifically, no limit, but in practice a reason­ speed between points is 10 miles an hour, including able size of equipment would be specified to main­ stoppages. .' ta.in 10 or i 2 miles an hour. , <8723. By the Cllairman.-What is your ma~i­ 8709. You would have no hesitation in saying mum ?-The maximum we ,are permitted is 20 miles that a speed of 4 miles ,an hour, would be rather too an hour. That was fixed by our Order in Council. Iowan estimate (-No, I would not. It i~ contingent on our having certain brake equip- 8710. With regard to the conne!,ion of your sys­ ment. < , te?l with the Melbourne system, if, the Melbourne 8724. Do you run up to 20 miles an hour?­ system were electrified on the conduit sy~tem, of Yes, on one or two poitions of the line, as, for in: course the cars would be driven with a plough. stance, in Wattlet~ee-road. We attain that speed That woiild be the means of conriexion with the there for a short distance. conductors. Supposirig, also, if your system and . 8725. eouid you on <l;ti.y part of your iine run up a,11 suburban systems were on the overhead prin­ to 20 miles an hour?-Yes, we could do it without ciple.