Fourth Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 5 – 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 3, 2002 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY First Session–Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 135 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 3, 2002 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Committee Membership: Your committee elected Mr. Nevakshonoff as the Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): It is my Chairperson. duty to inform the House that Mr. Speaker is unavoidably absent. Therefore, in accordance Substitutions received prior to commencement of with the statutes, I would ask the Deputy the meeting: Speaker to please take the Chair. Mrs. Dacquay for Mr. Murray Mr. Helwer for Mrs. Mitchelson Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Hon. Mr. Mackintosh for Hon. Mr. Selinger Chair Mr. Nevakshonoff for Ms. Allan Motions Adopted and Reported: PRAYERS THAT it is recommended that William (Bill) ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Norrie be appointed the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. PRESENTING REPORTS BY * (13:35) STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Mr. Nevakshonoff: I move, seconded by the Standing Committee on honourable Member for Elmwood (Mr. Privileges and Elections Maloway), that the report of the committee be First Report received. Motion agreed to. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Chairperson): I beg to present the First Report of the Committee on Introduction of Guests Privileges and Elections. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It is customary to Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your acknowledge the guests in the gallery before we Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections start Oral Questions. presents the following as its First Report– So, we have seated in the public gallery, Some Honourable Members: Dispense. O.V. Jewitt Elementary school, 39 Grade 5 students under the direction of Mrs. Rhonda Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Beddome from the constituency of the hon- ourable Member for The Maples (Mr. Aglugub). Your Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections presents the following as its First Also in the gallery from Springs Christian Report. Academy 28 Grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Brad Dowler from the constitu- Meetings: ency of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), St. Boniface. Your committee met on Monday, December 2, 2002, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative We have also in the gallery from Oakenwald Building. School 26 Grade 5 students under the direction of Mrs. Joanne Burns from the constituency of Matters Under Consideration: the honourable Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith). The Appointment of a Conflict of Interest Commissioner We all welcome you in the Legislature. 136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2002 ORAL QUESTION PERIOD municipal governments for construction of sewer and water infrastructure, recreational facilities, Provincial Sales Tax community halls, skating rinks and all of those Mechanical/Electrical Contracts buildings that will have this tax added on to them in all of those rural and city areas? Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Deputy Speaker, unhindered by a little obstacle Mr. Selinger: It is understandable that the new called balanced budget law, the Doer govern- critic was not available for the Estimates ment is using NDP tax hike code such as discussion last year where we confirmed there simplification, expanding the PST to cover would be no changes in taxation for water and mechanical and electrical contracts, effective sewer lines, no changes in taxation for basement October 1. Originally estimated to bring in flood relief, construction projects, no changes in approximately $10 million, stakeholders suggest taxation for water and sewer treatment plants, that range may be as high as $40 million to $70 and of course no changes in taxation for road million, to be more accurate. When you ask the construction. Taxation Division, they do not return phone calls. Even if after much effort they do, they Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Member shuffle you off to the minister's office and then for Arthur-Virden, second supplementary ques- refuse to give us any kind of estimate of what tion. that level would be. Mr. Maguire: The minister almost seems My question to the Minister of Finance is embarrassed, given that there is no answer to this simple: How much additional revenue is your question in regard to the amount of the tax grab tax grab estimated to bring your Government that he will take out of the province of Manitoba. coffers? How much additional revenue is he expecting as a result of this tax grab? Is it $10 Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): I million, $20 million? Is it $70 or $100 million would like to congratulate the member from that he is looking at taking out in a full year? Virden on his new responsibilities as Finance critic. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I indi- cated in the answer to my first question, the As to the question, the original estimate, estimate for a fully annualized implementation some predicted the revenue would exceed $60 of this measure is $15 million. The amount to be million. Others estimated it as low as $10 collected this year is significantly less because million. Finance, at the Estimates time when we the implementation was made effective October reviewed this, indicated they thought the 1, after the majority of construction was done in estimate would be in the order of $15 million, this year. We, of course, will be fully account- but with late implementation this year the able and report back to the Legislature or a amount of revenue would be significantly less. standing committee as the tax measure fully The implementation was done at a later date in implements. order to provide proper time for taxation officials to brief all members of the industry, Nursing Committee who of course requested this change in the first Update place. Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): In the 1999 * (13:40) election campaign, Mr. Doer promised Mani- tobans that if it took hiring more full-time Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Member nurses–[Interjection] I am sorry, Mr. Deputy for Arthur-Virden, for first supplementary. Speaker. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Deputy Speaker, can the Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. minister, as this policy affects all Manitobans, can he not table for this House any compre- Mr. Loewen: The Premier (Mr. Doer) promised hensive analysis in terms of increased costs of Manitobans that if it took hiring more full-time December 3, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 137 nurses to fix the health care system he would Mr. Chomiak: The member will know during simply hire more full-time nurses. Their election the term of the 11 lean Tory years there were literature was riddled to references of hiring two nurses' contracts negotiated, Mr. Deputy more full-time nurses. Yet here we are three Speaker, and in fact nurses received a rollback. years later, the nursing shortage has climbed, There was no joint commission. There was no overtime costs have increased dramatically and action on full-time nurses. There was no action front-line nurses are under more stress as a result on part-time nurses. The only action was elimi- of this Government's inaction. nating nurses' jobs. I would ask the Minister of Health if he When we negotiated our first collective would inform this House how many people he agreement with the nurses, we put in place a has appointed to the provincial joint committee committee to meet with the nurses, to have a on full-time, part-time nursing staff ratios, how joint council to work on full time, part time, not many meetings this committee has conducted an administrative council, not a professional and what recommendations have come forward advisory council, as is in members opposite's from this committee since it was struck in April.