LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 1053 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 10 November 1999 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH TING WOO-SHOU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHU YU-LIN THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. 1054 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 THE HONOURABLE LEE KAI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LUI MING-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING PROF THE HONOURABLE NG CHING-FAI THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD ARCULLI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI CHEUNG-CHING THE HONOURABLE CHAN KWOK-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN THE HONOURABLE BERNARD CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN WING-CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 1055 THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE GARY CHENG KAI-NAM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE YEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LAU HON-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHOY SO-YUK THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO 1056 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-KIN DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P. MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, S.B.S., J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, G.B.M., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE ELSIE LEUNG OI-SIE, J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE MR GORDON SIU KWING-CHUE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS MR RAFAEL HUI SI-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 1057 MR JOSEPH WONG WING-PING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER MISS DENISE YUE CHUNG-YEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY MR DAVID LAN HONG-TSUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MISS CHEUNG SIU-HING SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, J.P., SECRETARY GENERAL MRS JUSTINA LAM CHENG BO-LING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR RAY CHAN YUM-MOU, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 1058 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 TABLING OF PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Port Control (Public Cargo Working Area) (No. 2) Order 1999 ............................................... 268/99 Employees Retraining Ordinance (Replacement of Schedule 2) Notice 1999 ............................... 269/99 Shipping and Port Control Regulations (Amendment of Seventh Schedule) Notice 1999.................... 270/99 Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Confined Spaces) Regulation (L.N. 18 of 1999) (Commencement) Notice 1999 .............................................. 271/99 Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (Australia) Order (Cap. 525 Sub. Leg.) (Commencement) Notice 1999 .............................................. 272/99 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question. Strengthening Supervision over Kindergartens 1. MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Madam President, in view of the recent cases of over-enrolment and overcharging of fees by some kindergartens, will the executive authorities inform this Council: (a) whether they plan to amend the relevant legislation to strengthen the supervision over kindergartens and increase the penalties for such LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 1059 offences; if so, when the relevant bill is expected to be introduced into this Council; (b) of the follow-up actions taken in regard to refunding the parents the fees overcharged by the kindergartens concerned; whether prosecution will be instituted against those kindergartens which refuse to refund the overcharged fees to the parents; and (c) whether they will consider stepping up publicity efforts to educate parents on how to ascertain if a kindergarten has already been registered with the Education Department (ED), and to choose a suitable kindergarten? SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Madam President, (a) The Government takes a serious view of kindergartens over- enrolling and overcharging fees in breach of regulations. The ED has taken a number of measures to prevent recurrence of similar incidents; these include stepping up monitoring and persecution action, and enhancing parents' knowledge of kindergartens. The ED is at present conducting a review of the Education Ordinance and Regulations, including the introduction of substantial increases in the penalties for over-enrolment and overcharging of fees. We anticipate that the relevant legislative amendment will be submitted to the Legislative Council for consideration in 2001-02. (b) Regulation 67 of the Education Regulations requires every school to conspicuously exhibit in its premises a certificate setting out the fee per instalment, the number of instalments and the inclusive fee for every class in the school. Unless otherwise permitted in writing by the Director of Education, no supervisor, manager or teacher shall charge or accept payment of any money or any school fees whatsoever other than the inclusive fee as above stated. The ED will investigate cases of overcharging of fees. If a case is substantiated, the school concerned will be required to refund the 1060 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 overcharged fees. Other actions, including the issue of warning to the offender, prosecution or withdrawal of approval of supervisor, may also be considered in respect of each individual case. The ED recently issued a warning to a kindergarten which overcharged school fees and required it to refund the overcharged fees to parents. The kindergarten has already effected the refund. (c) Section 18(2) of the Education Ordinance requires the supervisor of a school to exhibit the certificate of registration or the certificate of provisional registration or a copy issued by the Director of Education at all times in a conspicuous place in each of the premises specified in the certificate. The ED has adopted various measures to help parents identify registered kindergartens and choose a suitable kindergarten. These include: (i) A list of registered kindergartens as well as kindergartens undergoing registration is kept in the District Offices for viewing by parents and the public; it is also uploaded to the ED's website. The list is updated regularly. (ii) Leaflets advising parents how to choose kindergartens are published. These leaflets are available in Maternal and Child Health Centres, District Education Offices and District Offices. (iii) Public announcements on how to choose kindergartens are broadcast on radio and television. In addition, the Committee on Home-School Co-operation will be publishing, before the end of the year, profiles on key features of kindergartens for reference by parents. The ED is also developing performance indicators to enable kindergartens to conduct self-evaluation and to improve their services. These indicators will be ready by September 2000 for distribution to kindergartens. They can also serve as reference by parents. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 10 November 1999 1061 MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Madam President, the Secretary mentioned in the main reply that the Government might issue warning to or prosecute a kindergarten that overcharges fees, or withdraw the approval of its supervisor. May I ask the Secretary the number of kindergartens on which penalties of various degrees have been imposed, the total amount of fees refunded, and the number of pupils involved to date? SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Madam President, I do not have the data on the number of pupils involved on hand. I will obtain the information from the ED and answer this question in writing. In the past academic year, that is, 1998-99, the ED received a total of six complaints about overcharging of school fees or miscellaneous fees. Of the six cases, one was not substantiated; three were not about overcharging of school fees but about refreshment fees of which the school had not informed parents that they were paid on a voluntary basis, and the ED has already issued a warning to the schools concerned. The remaining two cases involving overcharging of school fees were substantiated upon investigation. The ED has issued a warning to the relevant schools which have agreed to refund the pupils. As regards the information on the other items requested by Miss Emily LAU, I will make a note of them and answer her in writing later on.