Oral History – Archives of the Massillon Museum Interview with unidentified group of men and women “Black History 1910-1930” Tape Information: Tape #12 Ruth Kane numbering system RK-12 Interviewed c. 1980s Runtime: Approximately 60 minutes Transcribed by Paige Davis, intern, Massillon Museum 2007 *Note: tape is transcribed as heard, not grammatically correct Speaker Guide: P1: is an older woman. Pr: is the group prompter or group leader P2: is an older gentleman P3: is an older woman, with a higher voice. PM: is an older gentleman with a higher pitched voice. Tape RK-12, Massillon Museum Audio-Visual Archives Transcription, Unidentified group, “Black History 1910-1930” Page 1 Interview: ----Tape starts----- Pr: This will be on mostly black oral history. Take up a survey format here, start off with when you were, as far back as you can remember, when you were children. Start off with where did you live at? P1: Well its 10th St. now, used to call it Raspberry ally, and they finally came down to 10th St. Pr: Where these streets changed over the years in location? P1: No Pr: Or just the name? P1: Just the name Pr: 10th St. P1: Northeast. It only ran out to the lake, then after that it was all fields Pr: Right. Lake North is been recent history then, I remember up in there. When I lived up in there. P2: What was the biggest concentration of black families in Massillon, were they in the Southeast end or the northeast end or the Southwest end? Probably in the southwest end more huh? P1: Southwest more, it wasn’t until after the hotel down there, that they moved to the southeast. But they’ve always been all over. P2: Umm huh. Did you start first grade here? P1: Yes P2: What school did you go to? P1: Main St. It’s where Kroger, right back of the hospital, where that old Kroger store is. That was our school we had eight grades then we went on down to high school P2: People that had money and owned property here in Massillon and by what I mean people is black people, weren’t there? P1: Remember this right-walker. That worked for this, what was it the Baldwin family up here? And he went down to St. Timothy’s church and he left the money to the Tuskegee part of it, and part of it to the church. I bet you probably have some material on him, I know they do. Tape RK-12, Massillon Museum Audio-Visual Archives Transcription, Unidentified group, “Black History 1910-1930” Page 2 P2: he was a former slave right? P1: yah, I know they had material on him. And then there was the Bowman family, they left out of North Canton. Pr: North Canton. I’ve heard people talk about Mr. Sharp that had the farm out by were Tiger Stadium is now, out in there. Was there a Mr. Sharp that had a hog farm out there or something, and your grandfather, I’m thinking did your grandfather own property behind Amherst shopping center? P1: well out there now where Sue lives, that’s where I was born Pr: off of Amherst P1: It was Akron St. and now it’s Amherst. Pr: It was Akron St. now it’s Amherst. P3: but it’s off of Amherst. It was, it’s what is now Amherst P1: Amherst used to be Akron St. The street cars use to run out there. Ran till about late. P3: It’s the house next to where Sue lives, it was the old home. Pr: Oh, yes I remember that place; it’s still standing isn’t it? P1: Yes P3: Well yeah, it’s remolded but its still there. That’s where Francis was born. Pr: What was the address to that place, can you remember? P1: Then? Pr: Yeah. Its uh, it should be? P1: 17 something now. Pr: It should be 17 something. P1: It should be 1739 Pr: It would be one house back then, wouldn’t it? P3: Yeah, coming this way Pr: Coming this way, it should be about 1730? Tape RK-12, Massillon Museum Audio-Visual Archives Transcription, Unidentified group, “Black History 1910-1930” Page 3 P1: He was born over on the west side P3: our father Pr: What was his name? P3: Ford P1: Robert Grand Ford Pr: And umm, your parents travel around a lot? Did you have cars then, automobiles? P3: We walked, or horse and buggy. Pr: Oh, you had horse and buggy. P1 & P3: Yeah Pr: When do you remember your first car? P3: I remember Henry getting one of those Model T’s. Pr: Your brother had a Model T. P1: Yeah, down the line. P3: Yeah Pr: He had to been 20, or so before he had that then. P1: He graduated at 19. P3: 19 from high school, so I don’t imagine he got the car till he got out and worked some, you know. Pr: hopefully at that time, then when he was small everything was horse and buggy, wagon, your deliveries were all by wagon. I imagine everybody burnt Cole? P3: Yeah, definitely. Pr: That was all brought by wagon wasn’t it? P1 &P3: Yes. Pr: Do you remember any of the delivery people or any names? Tape RK-12, Massillon Museum Audio-Visual Archives Transcription, Unidentified group, “Black History 1910-1930” Page 4 P1: No P3: The man that delivered ice cream, Mo. P1: Mo, up there on Whales Rd. That we could see from our house, that’s the way we got ice cream on Sundays. You know it was so hot. He would bring it around, we’d have our dishes and give us whatever ice cream we wanted. They were up there on Whales for a long time, the ice cream place. Pr: Did he have an ice house? P1 & P3: He must have. Pr: Did you ever go over and buy a chip of ice? P1 & P3: No Pr: (too muffled) they use to hang around. P3: Maybe our brothers did, but we girls didn’t. P2: I think the ice was made, was cute out of lakes and reservoirs at that time. And was stored in kind of heavily built buildings with sawdust layers to keep it from melting and they’d store it from winter all the way through summer. Pr: Right P3: Right P1: And this place was right up by the reservoirs. It was cute right out of the reservoir. P2: They’d cut it out of the reservoirs in the winter time. I’ve seen pictures of them cutting ice, then they’d put sawdust layer and another thing of ice, then sawdust layer and another thing of ice. I wanted to ask you about Big Jenny whose last name was Lowery wasn’t it? P3: Maybe Angus can tell you more about him. P1: Dr. Lowery, what did you wanna know about him? P2: How did he get his start in Massillon? He seem to become wealthy, he became wealthy. He was a black man. He built the Globe Hotel, down on the corner of 2nd and South St. and that time there were a lot of, he had a brick yard down in Warmington. P1 & P3: Ume huh, that’s right. Tape RK-12, Massillon Museum Audio-Visual Archives Transcription, Unidentified group, “Black History 1910-1930” Page 5 P2: I can remember the houses down there, and I’ve been told by my parents that he built the fire station here in Massillon, he built the old city hall and plus he built the YMCA with the bricks from his brick yard. I worked with a guy named Bill Muskall, and he remembered all that and he told me that was one of the most fashionable hotels in NE Ohio. They had a ballroom in there called the Spinning Wheel was it? (others agreeing with him) Spinning Wheel. And at that time blacks and whites went to that place to dance on Saturday nights. It was a fashionable place. I also remember people telling me “I wish Freddy was here, he could tell about these things”. From 16th street all the way down to 3rd Street there was a rode that ran all the way down called Rice road. Rice road. It ran from 16th St. all the way to 3rd St. right down along the railroad tracks which is Wetmore now. (group agreeing) I can remember my mother telling me about the Enameling plant (group agreeing), my grandfather was a foreman out there; Mack Bush she said. They closed the Enameling plant. Went out of business, something like that. But a lot of young ladies worked there, my aunts worked there. Did you ever work their Mrs. Bradley at the Enameling plant? P1: Uh, no P2: I remember cutting through your back yard with the big barn that sat in back of the house on 13th St. (she agrees). When I was a little kid my grandfather rented from your dad (she agrees). I would cut through the back there, he always had a bad German Sheppard back there tied up, always had a bad German Sheppard. P1: Angus, was you born in Massillon? Angus: Right up on 13th St. it was old Kent St. then. P2: That’s where the paving brick stopped at 13 St. right? (Angus: agrees). And it was dirt all the way out the rest of the way. I can remember that.