JOHN LEHNDORFF. Born 1954 . TRANSCRIPT of OH 1587V A-C This interview was recorded on June 4,2009, for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program. The interviewer is Leland Rucker. The interview also is available in video format, filmed by Timothy Plass. The interview was transcribed by Penny Heiple. ABSTRACT: This is an interview about all things food in Boulder, spanning the mid- 1970s to 2009, related by one of Boulder’s premier foodies. John Lehndorff, was for many years the Boulder Daily Camera’s food columnist and editor, in addition to many other food involvements, such as having a food show on KGNU radio, being the head of the American Pie Council, and judging many food contests in Boulder. Here, he talks about many of Boulder’s restaurants, groceries, bakeries, breweries, cooking schools and chefs, in addition to putting into perspective Boulder’s growth into a national gourmet and natural foods center and analyzing what in Boulder’s culture has led to the changes that characterize its food scene. NOTE: The interviewer's questions and comments appear in parentheses. Added material appears in brackets. The interviewer, unless otherwise noted, is Leland Rucker. Questions asked or statements made by Timothy Plass are indicated by his initials at the start of the question or statement. [A]. 00:00 (My name is Leland Rucker. It's June the 4th, 2009, and we're interviewing John Lehndorff, former restaurant writer and critic for the Daily Camera and the Rocky Mountain News. We're going to be talking about food in Boulder. We're doing this for the Maria C. Rogers Oral History Program at the Boulder Public Library. The person behind the camera is Tim Plass. Welcome.) Thank you. (Nice to finally get you here on tape. We've been talking about food for a long time, John.) Yeah. (So, why don't we start with asking where and when were you born?) I was born in Pittsburgh, Massachusetts, in 1954. My dad was an anesthesiologist; my mom was a nurse before they got married. He was from Vienna, Austria, and her parents were from Sicily, so I'm barely first generation. I grew up in Pittsburgh and went on to school and all that stuff. (How did you wind up in Boulder? When and how?) Well, I went to school in Montreal at McGill University. So, I was up there from '72 to '75. Then I graduated and stayed another year in Montreal. That year, most of February, it was 20 degrees below zero, which kind of sets things up because that summer—the summer of '76—I got a call from a friend who had moved out here, a friend from school. [He] asked me to help him drive a car from New York to Colorado. I knew I didn't want to stay in my hometown, but I thought I was just coming to visit. So we drove across and got here in late June, 1976, and spent the Bicentennial on top of the Sleeping Giant mountain, kind of near Rollinsville and up in there, and saw many fireworks. Sometime soon after that, I decided I was going to hang around for a while. Now it's 2009. (So this was 1976. Why don't you give a little thumbnail, gastronomic sketch of Boulder in 1976.) Well, it was a lot less gastronomic than it now. When I first got here, I was like most of the people who came here then. Initially, you're interested in having a good time. But, you have you finance that. So, the first job I had in Boulder was working for a company called A La Carte. They operated the very first food stands—mobile food stands—on the downtown mall. The only problem was it was 1976, so the mall hadn't been built yet. It was just a pile of dirt. So there were very few customers, and that company didn't last long. I went on to work—that was the one thing I knew—cooking was the one thing I knew how to do that I could get paid for. So I worked at many local restaurants that no longer exist. (So you were a cook at A La Carte?) I was a sandwich seller. (At this point in time, had you thought about writing about food or anything like that?) A little bit. I had written in college, and I had done some journalism, but I really thought I was going to be more academic. As it turned out, all the poet jobs in Boulder were already taken when I got here. So, eventually I—I was always interested in writing about everything, but I had a particular affinity for food. At the time in 1976, there were very limited—there were a whole lot fewer restaurants and not as many good ones. The number of ethnic restaurants was really small. I think there was one Chinese restaurant, the Peking, which was across from Tom's Tavern on the edge of the mall. I don't know what's there now. I don't think there was any Vietnamese. That was still a few years off. I don't know if Sushi Zanmai had started then, but there wasn't a lot of sushi. You certainly didn't see it in the supermarkets. And there were a lot fewer supermarkets. There might have been—I think there was only one natural food store, the Green Mountain Grainery, which was where the senior center is at 9th and Arapahoe. That's where Mo Siegel first sold his teas and all that stuff. It was a hippie hangout. 05:35 (Well, a lot of places in Boulder were hippie hangouts at that particular time.) Including the Carnival Café. (Well, while you bring that up, what was the Carnival Café like?) It was in a little strip mall on Broadway between Walnut and Pearl. Boulder Baked— there's a different building there now. But supposedly, Patty Hearst had lunch there when she was on the run. It was a commune, in essence, and a co-op. As I remember it, there was a lot of rice and beans involved. That's where people organized various kinds of protests. It was kind of a first in a long string of interesting, but short-lived, either vegetarian or just natural food cafés. (What were the really good places to eat? What were the—where you went to dress up and have a good time.) Well, the Flagstaff House, which is still going, was definitely on the list. Also, the Red Lion was very popular. But, at that point, I wasn't eating at those kinds of places. (What kind of places were you eating?) Home, mostly, no. Um, you know, I don't know. Mostly the smaller, cheaper restaurant places. There weren't very many—like if you want to go out to breakfast right now, there's a couple of dozen really nice, neat places. There weren't then. I think there was Campbell's Café was still open. That was—I think it was on Pearl, east of where the mall is now. No, that was the Broken Drum, actually. The Broken Drum was there. So, there was just a few places like that. There was no Dot's Diner yet or Nancy's or Lucile's or any of the other—I'm not sure about the coffee shop—the Village Coffee Shop. That's been there a long time, but I don't know if it's been there since then. (That's been as long as I've been here since '83, but I don't know before that. So, at this particular time, mid, late 70s, you came to Boulder, and you found yourself cooking? Is that what you originally started to do when you were here in town?) Yeah, because I had worked for a caterer in my hometown in the summer, and I had also worked in a restaurant in Montreal. So that was the one thing. So, after A La Carte, I was the first pantry boy at the Greenbriar Inn, which was another good place to eat then. (You were a pantry boy?) Pantry boy, yes. (And what does a pantry boy do?) Well, originally there were only pantry girls. They made salads, Baked Alaska, Oysters Rockefeller—you know, it's all prep work and all that kind of stuff. So, I was the first guy they hired. It was the start of something. I also worked at a place called the International Café soon after that. It was where—it was in the block from—it was in the same block as the Sanitary Bakery, which was between 17th and 18th. It was where Rudi's bread was first sold. Rudi's bread came out of the Rudrananda commune; it was a Hindu sort of thing. The people who were making the bread were part of the religious group. 10:11 (Is this the same time period?) Yeah. (Rudi's?) Yeah. Yeah, roughly, in the late '70s. I also worked—over the next few years, I worked at Potter's. I have very distinct memories of hauling bags of onions out of the basement, up narrow stairs, and through the dining room to the kitchen at Potter's. (Where was Potter's located?) Potter's was the corner of Broadway and Pearl. It's where Paradise Bakery is now, next to Ben & Jerry's. I worked there. I worked at Pearl's, which I think is BJ's Brewhouse [now], in the next block up.