ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on STATUTORY REGULATIONS and ORDERS 31-32 Elizabeth 11 Chairperson Ms. Myrna Phi/lips Constituency of Wolseley VOL. XXXI No. 11 - 8:00 p.m., TUESDAY, 16 AUGUST, 1983. Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer. ProVInce ot Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name Constituency Party ADAM, Hon. A.R. (Pete) Ste. Rose NDP ANSTETT, Andy Springfield NDP ASHTON,Steve Thomp:;on NDP BANMAN, Robert (Bob) La Ve rendrye PC BLAKE, David R. (Dave) Minnedosa PC BROWN,Arnold Rhineland PC BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. Gimli NDP CARROLL,Q.C., Henry N. Brandon West IND CORRIN, Brian Ellice NDP COWAN, Hon. Jay Churchill NDP DESJARDINS,Hon. Laurent St. Boniface NDP DODICK, Doreen Riel NDP DOERN, Russell Elmwood NDP DOLIN,Hon. Mary Beth Kildonan NDP DOWNEY, James E. Arthur PC DRIEDGER, Albert Emerson PC ENNS, Harry Lakeside PC EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. Brandon East NDP EYLER, Phil River East NDP FILMON, Gary Tuxedo PC FOX, Peter Concordia NDP GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) Swan River PC GRAHAM, Harry Vir den PC HAMMOND,Gerrie Kirkfield Park PC HARAPIAK, Harry M. The Pas NDP HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HEMPHILL, Hon. Maureen Logan NDP HYDE, Lloyd Portage la Prairie PC JOHNSTON,J. Frank Sturgeon Creek PC KOSTYRA,Hon. Eugene Seven Oaks NDP KOVNATS,Abe Niakwa PC LECUYER, Gerard Radisson NDP LY ON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling Charleswood PC MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. AI St. James NDP MALINOWSKI,Donald M. St. Johns NDP MANNESS,Clayton Morris PC McKENZIE, J. Wally Roblin-Russell PC MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) St. Norbert PC NORDMAN,Rurik (Ric) Assiniboia PC OLESON,Charlotte Gladstone PC ORCHARD, Donald Pembina PC PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. Selkirk NDP PARASIUK,Hon. Wilson Transcona NDP PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland Fort Rouge NDP PHILLIPS, Myrna A. Wo lseley NDP PLOHMAN, Hon. John Dauphin NDP RANSOM, A. Brian Tu rtle Mountain PC SANTOS,Conrad Burrows NDP SCHROEDER,Hon. Vie Rossmere NDP SCOTT, Don lnkster NDP SHERMAN,L.R. (Bud) Fort Garry PC SMITH,Hon. Muriel Osborne NDP STEEN, Warren River Heights PC STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. Flin Flon NDP URUSKI,Hon. Bill lnterlake NDP USKIW, Hon. Samuel Lac du Bonnet NDP WALDING, Hon. D. James St. Vital NDP LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON STATUTOR Y REGULATIONS AND ORDERS Tuesday, 16 August, 1983 TIME - 8:00 p.m. The Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties would like to respond to Bill 107 dealing with the LOCATION - Winnipeg proposed amendments to The Child Welfare Act and also to the policy paper of the Minister of Community CHAIRPERSON - Ms. Myrna Phillips (Wolseley) Services and Corrections, Mr. Evans, dealing with regional delivery structure of Winnipeg Child Care ATTENDANCE - QUORUM - 6 Services. Members of the Committee present: To begin with, I should say that we agree with the statement made by Provincial Court Judge, Edwin Hon. Messrs. Evans and Storie Kimelman, in his Interim Report for the Review Mrs. Dodick, Messrs. Harper, Kovnats, Committee on Indian and Metis Adoptions and McKenzie, Orchard, Ms. Phillips, Messrs. Placements where he states, on Page 20: "lt is Sherman and Scott. imperative that child welfare services are continually responsive to existing and changing needs of WITNESSES: Mr. Abe Arnold, Manitoba communities and such sensitivity must be built into the Association for Rights and Liberties very structure of the child welfare system." Mr. Larry Alien, Native Family Services and MARL supports some aspects of the move of the Winnipeg Coalition for Urban and Native Child government towards the regionalization of the various Welfare child care agencies serving Winnipeg. We agree with Mr. Paul Walsh, Children's Aid Society of Judge Kimelman that in order for these agencies to Winnipeg respond effectively to the needs of their clients they Mr. Cyril Lillie, Social Workers' Union, should be community-based. Children's Aid Society of Winnipeg Even though MARL accepts this decentralized approach to the delivery of child welfare services, we Ms. Linda Milburn, Social Worker, Children's are concerned that the administration of the service Aid Society of Winnipeg. maintain some aspects of centralization. For instance, we feel that the movement of family members from MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: one child service area to another should be easily and Bill 107 - An Act to amend The Child Welfare efficiently handled by the child care authorities without Act (2) delay and without duplication of administrative tasks. We feel that this can best be managed through the centralized administration of four to six community­ based centres. Further we favour retaining some form of centralized MR. ASSISTANT CLERK, G. Mackintosh: The administrative services for certain purposes, such as, committee will come to order. Since the Chairman has better training of staff, specialization of certain services been replaced, are there any nominations for the Chair? and greater consistency in child care policy and procedure. HON. L. EVANS: Mr. Chairperson, I move that the In summary on this aspect, although we tend to agree Member for Wolseley, Myrna Phillips, act as the with the concept of regionalization of child care services, Chairperson for this committee. we feel that the smaller community-based centres should be administered to a manageable degree on a MR. ASSISTA NT CLERK: Is it the pleasure of the centralized basis. Now with direct regard to Bill 107, committee that Ms. Phillips take the Chair? (Agreed) we would suggest that while this may be related to the Ms. Phillips. issue of regionalization of child care services, it should not be considered merely as the means of implementing MADAM CHAIRPERSON: We'll begin by hearing this program of community-based centres. delegations and the first delegation is the Manitoba Whether the directors of the Children's Aid Societies Association for Rights and Liberties, Mr. Abe Arnold. are to be appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor-in­ Council rather than elected, MARL believes that the MR. A. ARNOLD: Have the copies been distributed, board of any child care agency must reflect the interests Madam Chairman? Can we get a couple of extra copies of those in our community who are most affected by down here if you have them to spare, please. the policies and operations of these agencies. MARL I find myself in a bit of a conflict here tonight because is opposed to the politicization of the child care agency MARL is supposed to appear at two committees at the boards, dealing as they do with such sensitive and same time, and we couldn't bring in another person crucial issues as child care and child protection. We from the lake for a second night in a row, so I've decided do not want to see the possibility of a complete to be here and let our written submission speak for replacement of the board of the Children's Aid every itself at the other committee. time the government changes; nor do we feel that a 272 Tuesday, 16 August, 1983 criterion such as political leanings should be a guide operations of those agencies." In MARL's view, who to fulfilling the board's membership requirements. are those people whose interests are of paramount If the government wishes to ensure that our child importance for reflection here, the children at risk care service agencies are more sensitive to community themselves, or whom would you suggest? needs, we believe that the board of directors must, in fact, be representative of those community members MR. A. ARNOLD: We have already suggested, and it's most involved in the service. well known that the major element in the community Obviously, every effort must be made to ensure that whose children are being served by Children's Aid is representation by the Native community of Winnipeg the Native community. We feel that proper arrangements is adequately built in to the regionalized child care should be made for the Native community to be service. MARL suggests that a Native Advisory represented and to be involved in the board of any Committee be established to assist in policy making Children's Aid Society or child caring agency. within the child care service. I believe we suggested Now I know there are moves in this direction, and this before in regard to when we appeared before Judge that the Native community is beginning to establish Kimelman, for example. We would further suggest that and has established a number of its own child caring the Native Advisory Committee should have the agencies. I believe that MARL recently wrote a letter responsibility of either appointing or electing members in support of the efforts to have a Native children's to the board of directors of the agency. agency established for Winnipeg. So that we would CAS board members may also be selected from other support those moves. They are the main element. interested groups, such as lawyers, psychologists and We also suggest that some elements from the social workers who are practising in the area of child professional community like lawyers, psychologists, welfare. VJe should avoid the danger of having a board social workers could be as well directly represented of directors that appears to be completely politically on the Children's Aid Board, if they are not already. I controlled. This seemsto be the main problem conveyed suppose they are represented to some extent, but it's by the proposed Bill 107. the manner in which they are chosen. The setting of guidelines for the election or lt seems to me that some of the bodies, like perhaps appointment of CAS board members should, therefore, the Family Law Subsection of the Bar could be asked have the objective of establishing a board that is to name somebody to the Children's Aid, or things like sensitive and responsive to children's needs, as well that, so that the board of the Children's Aid could be as to community needs.