National Museum of the Pacific War Nimitz Education and Research Center Fredericksburg, Texas Interview with Mr. Robert Wesley Clum Date of Interview: April 22, 2010 National Museum of the Pacific War Fredericksburg, Texas Interview with Mr. Robert Wesley Clum Interview in progress. Mark Cunningham: This is Mark Cunningham (cough); I’m an volunteer oral historian for the Museum of the Pacific [War] in Fredericksburg. Today is April 22, 2010. I’m interviewing Mr. Robert Wesley Clum. I am at his home in Houston, Texas. Mr. Clum was a member of the Army Air Force and he served with the 484th Bomber Group, the 827th Bomb Squadron. (Pause) Okay, Bob, right off the bat...when were you born and where? Mr. Clum: I was born in Joplin, Missouri in...on August 10th, 1924. Mark Cunningham: Alright, so you are... Mr. Clum: Eighty-five years old. Mark Cunningham: Eighty-five years old. And...you...you grew up in Joplin? Mr. Clum: No, I...my folks lived there when I was still a baby. Mark Cunningham: Okay, what were your folks’ names? Mr. Clum: Uh, John Clum and Doris Cox...is...is her maiden name. Mark Cunningham: Now did you have any siblings? Mr. Clum: Uh, not at that time. Well, it’s...my family is kind of a mixed deal; when I was nine years old, my folks separated and each remarried and they got a...my father’s side...he had a son and on my mother’s side...she had a daughter, so I have a half-brother; I believe he passed away and then I Page 1 of 22 have a sister. But by the time that happened I was almost grown; I was in...in the service...seventeen, eighteen years old, so... Mark Cunningham: Right. Mr. Clum: ...so I didn’t really grow up with...siblings. Mark Cunningham: Alright. Where were you when the war broke...broke out on Pearl Harbor Day and what do you remember about Pearl Harbor Day? Mr. Clum: I was, at that time, I was living in Tulsa, Oklahoma and what I remember is coming...walking down a hill from church and stopping off at a little service station that...I used to work in the grocery store right next to this service station...and I stopped at the service station ‘cause...friends there. And they had the radio on and it was telling me about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. And that’s...then I...kind of remember going home and getting out in the car and listening to the old car radio and...hearing about all the declarations of the war against Germany and...just missed Japan, and of course, Roosevelt’s famous speech... Mark Cunningham: Right. Mr. Clum: ...and all that sort of thing...when the war started. Mark Cunningham: Yeah. Mr. Clum: And that’s just about what I remember. Mark Cunningham: Okay, now you must have been in high school; is that right? Mr. Clum: I was out of high school. Mark Cunningham: You were out of high school? Mr. Clum: I was seventeen...uh, wait a minute, yeah, I was seventeen. Page 2 of 22 Mark Cunningham: And when did you...when did you go...first off, why did you select the Army? Mr. Clum: (Pause), well, I...I was seventeen years old and approaching eighteen and I was, at that time, I was working in...for Oil...Sinclair Oil and Gas as a file clerk, and I had a good friend there and...and his brother was in the Air Corps...Air Force, and evidently he had...he got into the Cadet system and came home as a Bombardier in his...beautiful officer uniform, and I said, “Man, that...that looks...something for me,” you know? Mark Cunningham: Right. Mr. Clum: I liked that. Well, at that time, the Air Force recruiting...they...they weren’t requiring degrees, I mean, high school; college degrees were...Aviation Cadets. If you could pass a test, then you could get into the Cadets. And I passed the test; passed the physical, and so then they didn’t call me up until February of ’43, and...and I joined in August of ’42 when I’d just turned eighteen, but they didn’t call me up till...February of ’43. Mark Cunningham: For active duty? Mr. Clum: For...for active duty, yeah. Mark Cunningham: And where did you go for basic? Mr. Clum: Uh, went to...reported to...uh, Wichita Falls, Sheppard Field. And we took basic there for...couple...three months, and then they sent us to College Training Detachment for...most of them in the Cadets or Cadet program...not too many of them are college graduates, so they gave us Page 3 of 22 crash courses in...certain...physics and certain...probably mathematics a little bit, and...and Morse code. Mark Cunningham: Okay, now you were a Navigator, right? Mr. Clum: I was...Bombardier. Mark Cunningham: A Bombardier. Mr. Clum: So when we left this College Training Detachment, we went to San Antone...to Kelly Air Force Base. That’s where we had the classification; they took dexterity tests and this sort of thing and to...determine whether be a Navigator Pilot or a Bombardier. Well, I got qualified for Pilot, but I realized that pilots...maybe...what the percentage is, but they...they had a pretty good (unintelligible) outbreak, and I figured my better chances were to be a Bombardier and I’d already had my ideas on being a Bombardier anyway, so I...I had to go in front of a...a little...committee of officers...convince them that I’d rather be a Bombardier than a Pilot and I...and I did. Mark Cunningham: Okay. Mr. Clum: So I got into Bombardier Training. Mark Cunningham: Alright. Now were you going through...had you gotten your commission yet, at this point? Mr. Clum: No. No, at this point, I went to Ellington Field in Houston and took Pre- Flight Training; seven Cadets, and then I went to Gunnery School at Harlingen [Texas] and learned to fly; powered the different turrets and take...fifty caliber machine apart and put it together. I got my first Page 4 of 22 flight...in an airplane, AT-6, which is a...one of the most exciting things I think I did, just about, during the war. Flying in formation in that open cockpit, the AT-6, it... Mark Cunningham: Now you were...actually learning to fly, you saying? Mr. Clum: No! No, I was in Gunnery School. Mark Cunningham: Oh okay. Mr. Clum: They had me in the back cockpit with a thirty caliber machine gun. Mark Cunningham: Oh, I see! Alright. Mr. Clum: They was flying a...B-26, I think it was, actually flown by WACs and I...supposed to turn around my...thirty caliber machine gun and...and when he gave me the...the Pilot gave me the nod, I stand up and fire my two hundred rounds, and then he told me to sit down real quick and then he did this (showing motion) quick dive, you know, and man it...and out of that two hundred shots, I think I hit it twice. Mark Cunningham: (Chuckles). Mr. Clum: So I thought I was going to get...washed out or something, and...but it... Mark Cunningham: I guess I had forgot, you had to, in addition to your Bombardier duties on a B-24, you were...you were the nose guy, right? Mr. Clum: No, I wasn’t a Gunner. Mark Cunningham: Okay. Mr. Clum: No. No, we had a nose Gunner. Mark Cunningham: Okay. Page 5 of 22 Mr. Clum: So after we finished Gunnery School, I went into Bombardier Training in Big Spring, Texas, and...then we had classes in Bombardier training, of course, and that’s where I got my...graduated from there and became a Second Lieutenant, Bombardier. Then we...from there, we went to Lincoln, Nebraska where we met our crew; did training with on a B-24, so the...my...uh, I met the Co-Pilot, Pilot and Navigator and my Gunners. And...I have their names...I...if that’s of any interest, but...and then when we left Lincoln, Nebraska we went to Pueblo, Colorado. Mark Cunningham: Let me back up about...on those...those names. Now did you guys stay together? Mr. Clum: Yes. Mark Cunningham: You...were you...okay once you... Mr. Clum: We were... Mark Cunningham: ...once you crewed out, you were... Mr. Clum: ...we were a crew...trained to go into combat as a crew. Mark Cunningham: Okay. Mr. Clum: And these...these...we went to Pueblo then to train as a crew, but...in B- 24s. This is the first time that we got into the B-24s except for our Pilots. Of course, they were checked out on B-24s. Mark Cunningham: Alright, now how many people were in that crew? Mr. Clum: There are ten. Mark Cunningham: Alright. Most of them were...Pilot...what...Pilot; Co-Pilot... Page 6 of 22 Mr. Clum: There’s four officers – there’s Pilot, Co-Pilot, Navigator and Bombardier, and there were six Gunners. And we got the six Gunners; we have the Nose Turret Gunner; Upper Turret Gunner; Tail Turret Gunner; Ball Turret Gunner, and two Waste Gunners. And of the two, uh, two of them, were...one was a Radio man and the other was a Flight Engineer. Mark Cunningham: Or...did double duty. Mr. Clum: Yeah, double duty; correct. Mark Cunningham: Alright, alright.