Founh Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on LAW AMENDMENTS 42 Elizabeth II Chairperson Mr. Bob Rose Constituency of Turtle Mountain VOL. XLII No.4· 9 a.m., MONDAY, JULY 5, 1993 ISSN 0713-9586 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituenciesand Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK,Reg Osborne Liberal ASHTON,Steve Thompson NDP BARREll, Becky Wellington NDP CARSTAIRS,Sharon River Heights Liberal CERILLI,Marianne Radisson NDP CHOMIAK,Dave Kildonan NDP CUMMINGS, Glen; Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY,Louise Seine River PC DERKACH,Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR,Gregory Selkirk NDP DOER,Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY,James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER,Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME,Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS,Paul St. James Liberal ENNS,Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST,Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS,Clif Interlake NDP EVANS,Leonard S. Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY,Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NDP GAUDRY,Neil St. Boniface Liberal GILLESHAMMER,Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC GRAY,Avis Crescentwood Liberal HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NDP LAMOUREUX,Kevin Inkster Liberal LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU,Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood NDP MANNESS,Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NDP McALPINE,Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE,James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH,Linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON,Bonnie, Hon. River East PC ORCHARD,Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PALLISTER,Brian Portage Ia Prairie PC PENNER,Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN,John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK,Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID,Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER,Jack Niakwa PC RENDER,Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN,Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP STEFANSON,Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE,Jerry Flin Flon NDP SVEINSON,Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY,Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry PC WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NDP WOWCHUK,Rosann Swan River NDP Vacant Rossmere Vacant Rupertsland Vacant The Maples 35 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW AMENDMENTS Monday, July 5,1993 TIME-9a.m. Society; Gail Watson, Manitoba Association of LOCATION-Winnipeg, Manitoba SchoolTruste es; Wendell Sparkes, St. Vital School Division; Betty Green, Lakeshore School Division; CHAIRPERSON - Mr. Bob Rose (Turtle Joan Seller and Paul Moist, CUPE, Manitoba; Mary Mountain) Ann Mihychuk, Winnipeg School Division No. 1 . ATTENDANCE- 10- QUORUM-6 At this time, I would canvass the audience to ask Members of the Committee present: if there are any other persons wishing to make Hon. Mrs. Mcintosh, Hon. Mrs. Vodrey presentations to the bill this morning, and if so, Mrs. Dacquay, Ms. Gray, Messrs. Lamoureux, would they please identify themselves to staffat the Pallister, Plohman, Mrs. Render, Messrs. back of the room, please. Rose, Sveinson Does the committee wish to put a time limit on WITNESSES: presentations? No? No time limit. [agreed] Betty Green, Lakeshore School Division It has been our practiceto hear from out-of-town David Turner, Manitoba Teachers' Society presenters first. Does the committee wish to follow that this morning? [agreed] Glen McRuer, Manitoba Teachers' Society Gail Watson, Manitoba Association of School In reading the list, I see only lakeshore School Trustees Division from out of town, so I will call then on Betty Green, lakeshore School Division. Joan Seller, Canadian Union of Public Employees - Manitoba Ms. Betty Green (Lakeshore Schoo l Division): June Ross, Canadian Union of Public On behalf of the trustees of lakeshore School Employees Division No. 23, I would like to thank the committee for hearing the board's view on Bill16. We ask that Mary Ann Mihychuk, Winnipeg School the members of the legislative Assembly consider Division No. 1 the negative impact that the passage of Bill 16 will MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: have on the education of this province and, Bi1116-The Public Schools Amendment Act therefore, the trustees would ask that this bill not be *** passed into law. The local control of education has both a Mr. Chairperson: Will the Standing Committee on historical and practical significance to the Law Amendments please come to order. ratepayers of lakeshore School Division. Our This morning the committee will be considering school division is quite large and therefore the following bill: Bill 16, The Public Schools encompasses a great many communities that have Amendment Act. For the committee's information, many things in common. However, they also differ copies of the bill are available on the table behind from one another because of the large separation me. of distance. It is our custom to hear presentations from the That is why we as trustees come together on a public before the detailed consideration of bills. I regular basis to meet, discuss and exchange ideas have before me a list of persons' names registered and views from the ratepayers of our different to speak to Bill 16. communities. The decisions we make as a board George Marshall, private citizen; unnamed have an effect on each community within our representative from Transcona-Springfield School school division. It is the understanding each Division No. 12; David Turner, Manitoba Teachers' trustee brings to the table which assists us in 36 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 5, 1993 making decisions that will benefit the students in collaboratively could result in mutually beneficial our division. solutions. The passage of Bill 16, which is an erosion of We would agree with many of our colleagues local autonomy, will impair the ability of trustees to who have noted that Bill 16 is unfair, because it represent fairly the. citizens of Lakeshore School singles out some school boards while it leaves Division. This bill will impede our ability to tax and, others alone. Those school divisions with large hence, threaten many of the programs that are surpluses or large tax bases will not be affected in being offered that are desired by the residents in the same way as the small school boards, like our division. These programs are of great benefit Lakeshore School Division, will be. The loss of to our students. In some cases, they are professional development, parent-teacher or necessary for a post-secondary education administration days will only increase the disparity entrance. They should not be threatened by this betweenthe public school boards. type of legislation, legislation made without If it is the government's intention to seek a consultation or consideration of the long-term common denominator for education, let it not be the effects. lowest common denominator. Let the government Our school division has made its way through continue to press for equality in education across some very difficult financial times. In doing so, the the province, not by restricting the board's activities board has always maintained the quality of but by encouraging boards to accommodate the education throughout the school division. In the diverse needs of their residents . Again, we past, we have had some difficulty in balancing our recognize that we are in difficult financial times. budgets. However, the board has brought its However, for one level of government to reach in budget into line in a consistent and regular basis. and remove the responsibilities and powers of We receive about 80 percent of our funding another level of government is uncalled for. directly from the province. However, it is We believe a problem-solving approach to the imperative that to offer some of the programs which current crisis is required. There was no are unique to our school division, we require consultation with school boards prior to the additional funds from our local ratepayers. Our legislation being introduced. At no time did the annual ratepayers meetings indicate a willingness government sit down and evaluate the alternatives to support these programs, and as long as our open to school boards and the provincial ratepayers have the option to pay, the programs government, and at no time did the provincial will exist. The ability to pay determines which government sit down with school boards and courses the local tax dollars will support. assess the many risks that were involved in In the past, school boards and local teachers removing the democratic rights of school boards. associations have had to rely on the arbitration At no time did the government sit down and trust in boards to settle collective agreements. A board's the wisdom that exists in the 500-plus trustees refusal to give in to high salary increases has often across the province in assisting them in making a necessitated this course of action, yet time after decision. time, the arbitration boards have not given We would once again ask the government to consideration to the division's ability to pay. This is reconsider the passage of this bill and sit down with an area which needs further investigation. the various school boards across the province to identify the concerns of the government. * (0910) The board views the interference in local Let us help set priorities for education by decision-making powers as one that is neither reviewing the report of the panel on education desirable nor necessary at the time. Leadership legislation reform using the talents of not only the from this government could come through its school trustees but the teachers and parents in Department of Education. Reaching directly into planning steps to help improve education around local control does not show the quality of the province. leadership that is necessary in the educational We would ask that the government not pass this community where working together collectivelyand legislation but rather set aside the time used in July 5, 1993 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 37 meetings such as this one to plan the involvement Mr.