1 Funding for the Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program NEA Jazz Master interview was provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. SONNY ROLLINS NEA Jazz Master (1983) Interviewee: Sonny Rollins (September 7, 1930 - ) Interviewer: Larry Appelbaum with recording interviewer Ken Kimery Date: February 28, 2011 Repository: Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution Description: Transcript, 50 pp. [Start of Tape 1] Appelbaum: Hello, my name is Larry Appelbaum. Today is February 28, 2011. We are here in the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., and I’m very pleased to be sitting at this table with Sonny Rollins. Good to see you again. Rollins: Good to see you again, Larry. Appelbaum: Yes. Let me begin by just asking some basics to establish some context. Tell us first of all the date you were born and your full name at birth. Rollins: Oh, I was afraid you were going to ask me that. Ok, my full name at birth was Walter Theodore Rollins, and I was born September 7, Sunday morning, 1930 in Harlem, America uh on 137th Street between Lenox and 7th Avenues. Uh, there was a midwife that delivered me, and that was my–how I entered into this thing we call life. Appelbaum: What were your parents names? Rollins: My father’s name was Walter uh my mother’s name was Valborg, V-A-L-B-O- R-G, which is a Danish name and uh, I can go into that if you want me to. Appelbaum: Tell me first, where were they from? For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 2 Rollins: Yeah well, my father was born in St. Croix in what was then the Danish Virgin Islands. My mother was born in St. Thomas, which was then the Danish Virgin Islands. And uh, since the Danes of course–Valborg was a Danish name–and um, so uh she was given that name. Um, my great-grandfather was a doctor in Haiti–Dr. Solomon–that was my grandmother’s wonderful husband–she was married several times. And um, let’s see, I think that’s a, that’s about as much as I know about my, you know, immediate heritage, you know. Appelbaum: Did you know your grandparents very well? R ollins: I knew my grandmother very well. Uh, my grandfather I never knew. He remained in Haiti and I never met him or anything. My grandmother I knew. My grandmother I stayed with often ‘cause she was in the United States, also. You know they all– Appelbaum: This is your mother’s fa-, mother’s mother? R ollins: My mother’s mother. Appelbaum: I see. Okay. R ollins: My father’s mother I met, also. Uh, uh but she wasn’t living in the States. I think she was living in St. Croix, and she came to the United States one time, a couple of times, and I met her, you know. Appelbaum: I know your immediate family. You have a sister and a brother who are both musical. Where do you think that musical ability came from? R ollins: Well, that’s very interesting. I–my father told me that he played clarinet at one time. I never heard him play clarinet. I have the feeling it wasn’t something he was doing regularly, you know. I never heard him play, and so I don’t know. But other than that uh I think it’s probably uh further back. I think my grandfather on my father’s side was a singer, I believe. That’s what I was told, and they were from St. Croix. And my sister used to show–had pictures, and she said I resemble him very much. And he was a singer. He was also a lothario, and she gave me these stories about him being chased out of–jumping out of windows when guys would find him with–this kind of stuff. I’m not like that, but uh I may have gotten my musical, you know, thing from him. It’s possible. Appelbaum: Do you think having an ear for music is genetic? R ollins: Uh, gee, that’s a question I...Well, I, I think so. I think–see you’re asking me this question, this is a big question: environment or genetics. I think to play music you have to have–be born with–I mean I know that because when I was growing up all my friends wanted to be jazz musicians. We all wanted to be jazz players, because those are For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 3 guys that were always show up and play it, you know, had a lot–but they all couldn’t do it. I was the guy that had enough natural talent to be able to play music, so, I was the guy that did it. So, in that–I feel it’s genetic, in that, you know–it’s not environmental, because if it was environmental we all would have been playing. So, I think you have to have a good–and yeah it’s genetic, probably, there’s some percentage, probably, the preponderance that would be–think genetic. Appelbaum: Uh, what was your brother’s name? R ollins: Valdemar. Appelbaum: Okay, and he played what? R ollins: Violin. Appelbaum: And he played well. R ollins: He was very well. He played very, very well. And uh– Appelbaum: Is he older or younger? R ollins: He’s five years my senior. So, I listened to him as a boy in bed, I listened to him practicing, and I enjoyed listening to him practicing I, you know, I liked music as a child myself, everything, but I, I really uh enjoyed listening to him practicing. He was very good, by the way. And as I may have said he was considered uh to go with the Pittsburgh Symphony. This was a black kid in Music & Art High School [The High School of Music & Art] at the time, which was sort of the uh big music high school in New York. And um, he was that good, you know–talking about that, I don’t know if it would have happened but he was considered that, so I know he was that good. And um– Appelbaum: Did he make his living as a violinist? R ollins: No, no, he became a doctor. He went into–he was a doctor, and he’s, he’s retired. He’ll be at the ceremony at the White House, by the way. So uh you know, if you’re around I’ll introduce you to him. But um, he became a doctor, you know, but he still, you know, plays for uh recreation, you know. Appelbaum: Did he literally show you things? R ollins: No. He was–you know, five years is a big difference especially at that of your life, so, we didn’t uh you know, associate that much together. Appelbaum: But you heard him, and you absorbed. For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 4 R ollins: I absorbed it. Appelbaum: How about your sister? R ollins: My sister played piano and uh, she sang and all this stuff. So uh there was always a piano in the house and she played piano, and she–um, so she was, you know, she had a musical talent, also. Appelbaum: Uh, what was her name? R ollins: Gloria. Appelbaum: And younger? Older? R ollins: She’s older. I was the youngest. Appelbaum: You’re the youngest. R ollins: I’m the youngest. Appelbaum: Tell me a little bit about the neighborhood you grew up in, and how that informed your choice to become a musician. R ollins: Well, okay, I was born, as I said, in uh what would be called “Harlem Proper,” because Harlem is expanded somewhat uh but Harlem, 137th Street, would be sort of right–the mecca, I think, Old Harlem was the mecca, but uh the centerpiece street was 125th Street. And the uh another big street was 135th Street, and that was the street they have the famous Harlem Y, YMCA, in which a lot of cultural events and so on occurred there. Um, 125th Street was the, uh commercial center, and um, there were all, there were a lot of–125th Street was sort of, you know, the big shopping street and there were things happening there, as well, you know. There was a very famous bookstore, um, that I, I’ve seen written about in history that a lot of these black national people at that time used to go to this bookstore. I forget the name of it now, but it was on 125th Street and 7th Avenue. Appelbaum: Was it run by Garveyites? R ollins: Garveyites were prevalent, you know. Uh, my grandmother was a Garveyite, and um, it–yeah, I would imagine, yeah I think everybody was sympathetic to Garveyites, you know. But I don’t know if they, if they would call themselves, technically, some of these people, but [Marcus] Garvey was a very sympathetic figure, among the, especially the lower, middle classes. You know, he had problems with the upper, middle-class blacks, W.E.B. Du Bois, and so forth, they had their clashes, you know. But uh among the sort of lower people–I hate to say that because I would–although, my father was a For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 5 career Navy man we were, we didn’t live in any, we were right in the middle of uh you know, that, the poor area, I guess I would have to say.