ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second Legislature oflhe Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31-32 Elizabeth II Publl•hed under the authority of The Honourable D. Jame• Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. 538 - 8:00 p.m., MONDAY, 25 APRIL, 1983. Printed by the Office of the 0-s Printer. Provinct1 ot M1111il0bll MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name Constituency Party ADAM,Hon. A.R. (Pete) Ste. Rose NDP ANSTETT, Andy Springfield NDP ASHTON, Steve Thompson NDP BANMAN,Robert (Bob) La Verendrye PC BLAKE,David R. (Dave) Minnedosa PC BROWN,Arnold Rhineland PC BUCKLASCHUK,John M. Gimli NDP CARROLL,Q.C., Henry N. Brandon West IND CORRIN,Brian Ellice NDP COWAN,Hon. Jay Churchill NDP DESJARDINS,Hon. Laurent St. Boniface NDP DODICK, Doreen Riel NDP DOERN,Russell Elmwood NDP DOLIN,Mary Beth Kildonan NOP DOWNEY, James E. Arthur PC DRIEDGER,Albert Emerson PC ENNS, Harry Lakeside PC EVANS,Hon. Leonard S. Brandon East NDP EYLER,Phil River East NDP FILMON, Gary Tuxedo PC FOX,Peter Concordia NDP GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) Swan River PC GRAHAM, Harry Virden PC HAMMOND,Gerrie Kirkfield Park PC HARAPIAK,Harry M. The Pas NDP HARPER,Elijah Rupertsland NDP HEMPHILL,Hon. Maureen Logan NDP HYDE,Lloyd Portage la Prairie PC JOHNSTON,J. Frank Sturgeon Creek PC KOSTYRA,Hon. Eugene Seven Oaks NDP KOVNATS, Abe Niakwa PC LECUYER,Gerard Radisson NDP LY ON,Q.C., Hon. Sterling Charleswood PC MACKLING,Q.C., Hon. Al St. James NDP MALINOWSKI,Donald M. St. Johns NDP MANNESS,Clayton Morris PC McKENZIE,J. Wally Roblin-Russell PC MERCIER,Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) St. Norbert PC NORDMAN,Rurik (Ric) Assiniboia PC OLESON,Charlotte Gladstone PC ORCHARD,Donald Pembina PC PAWLEY, Q.C.,Hon. Howard R. Selkirk NDP PARASIUK,Hon. Wilson Transcona NDP PENNER, Q.C.,Hon. Roland Fort Rouge NDP PHILLIPS, Myrna A. Wolseley NDP PLOHMAN,John Dauphin NDP RANSOM,A. Brian Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS,Conrad Burrows NDP SCHROEDER,Hon. Vic Rossmere NDP SCOTT, Don lnkster NDP SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) Fort Garry PC SMITH,Hon. Muriel Osborne NDP STEEN, Warren River Heights PC STORIE, Jerry T. Flin Flon NDP URUSKI,Hon. Bill Interlake NDP USKIW. Hon. Samuel Lac du Bonnet NOP WALDING,Hon. D. James St. Vital NDP LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, 25 April, 1983. Time - 8:00 appear to have an entirely new branch performing some functions that had been carried out by the department previously but expanded to an extent that surprises SUPPLY - EDUCATION me quite honestly; the fact that we have seven positions set forth in this branch which is, as I said, new to some MR. CHAIRMAN, P. Eyler: Committee come to order. extent. The Minister might be able to explain to what We are considering the Estimates of the Department extent it is new in her department, but certainly it's of Education. Item 1.(g)(1) Communications: Salaries. new as an item. She has indicated that they are now Madam Minister. carrying on part of the activities that were formerly carried on by Field Services and part of the activities HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I could that were formerly carried on by the Management take a moment to make a couple of points related to Information Services. I was surprised at the fact that the discussions we had this afternoon. I do have the the Minister indicated the two positions are vacant and information that the Member for Tuxedo requested it hasn't been decided what the role of those two regarding the Board of Reference hearings. We have positions would be or whether or not they are in fact summarized the ones that were in this budget year, necessary, that that would be part of the discussion listed them and given a very short explanation. I will and determination of the new director and with the give him this copy and if he wants any more detailed department that kind of thing would be determined. information on any of them we'd be glad to provide It seems to me that the government and this Minister it. must have had something in mind when they set up I wonder, also, if I could comment on one other item this Communications area. They must have a defined that came up in relation to, when is an item going to role and they must know what they're intending to do be discussed. I noticed a bit of surprise on the face with this branch. I would like to know a great deal more of the Member for Tuxedo when he was asking the about it before we're prepared to pass this item. question of where capital projects might be discussed and I said that it would be appropriate under 16.(a) HON. M. HEMPHILL: Well, Mr. Chairman, I can and he was a little bit surprised. understand both the concerns and the questions being I'd like to clarify that the Public Schools' Finance raised by the Member for Tuxedo in this area. He's Board has two sections and the distribution of money making a number of points, each one of which I hope to schools is the portion of the Public Schools Finance to and I should try to address his questions fully. I don't Board activity, that is under that 16.(3)(a) line, and that want to set up a big department or a big system with would include all money that's allocated to school a lot of people that are not needed to do a job. We've divisions plus the questions related to role and function been very careful at looking at the staff years and the and activities of the board. The capital portion of their jobs related to them across the department as a whole section of responsibilities is under 16.(8), and if it's all and in many cases have frozen staff positions that were right with the Member for Tuxedo, we would prefer to not filled and that in our estimation they wouldn't need proceed with those two splits and have all the capital to be filled. dealt with where it's designated, under 16.(8). In this case, we're looking at what I believe to be one of the most important areas to receive consideration MR. CHAIRMAN: The Member for Tuxedo. of whether or not the job is being done adequately to MR. G. FILMON: I thank the Minister for that date. I think the decision that we reached when we information. I just ask in anticipation of the discussion looked at it is that it was not and I'll go into that a whether or not she has also the information that I'd little bit further. asked about the Communications Branch, where the I think I'll start talking about the positions first. He people have come from and so on. indicated some concerns about the number of positions and did suggest that some of them existed, were already HON. M. HEMPHILL: Ye s, I do. Would he like me to there. That is true. In fact, we created the branch from start with that? within the department using both people that were presently doing a job that is going to continue, and MR. G. FILMON: If I may I will take just a brief time staff years within the department and operational dollars to look through the information on the Board of that were already assigned to do the job. What we are Reference. Perhaps that can be left until a later point, doing is pulling them together, I suppose, and we are I may have no questions on it. We did initiate the changing the mandate and the role and the function. discussion on the Communications section and I'm just So just to give him the specific information that I think wondering if we could carry on with that at the present he wants about the nunbers, there are seven positions time and we may get back to the Board of Reference in total, and three of those positions were in the or we may just leave it. This summary may be sufficient Information Office which has now been expanded. I for my purposes. suppose you could say that we started off with a number The concern that I had expressed to the Minister of positions in the Information Office where they were just prior to adjournment was the concern that we carrying out responsibilities and tasks related to 2051 Monday, 25 April, 1983 communication. They are going to continue to do those, they have that can be used by other members of the and because they were not adequately able to handle department. the full scope of the job as we have now determined We are also going to have to do a better job of it to be, we have expanded on the numbers of people. communicating inter-governmentally. I think that I'll go in perhaps a little bit later about the activities everybody recognizes the tremendous increasing sort that those people were performing and that are so very of duplication and overlapping of responsibilities important to do and that we're continuing with. In between the Department of Education, Community addition then, we took two professional positions and Services, and Health, where it's getting harder and sort one secretarial position and the director took four staff of fuzzier to see where some programs begin and other years from Field Services.