PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE Wednesday 9 November 2005 Session 2 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2005. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Licensing Division, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by Astron. CONTENTS Wednesday 9 November 2005 Col. NEW PETITIONS................................................................................................................................... 2087 Scottish Civic Forum (Funding) (PE895) ........................................................................................... 2087 Railway Infrastructure and Services (Inverness, Thurso and Wick) (PE894) ........................................ 2094 Listed Buildings (Consultation on Disposal) (PE896) ......................................................................... 2099 Residential Care (Charges) (PE897) ................................................................................................ 2100 Aviation Fuel (VAT) (PE891) ............................................................................................................ 2110 CURRENT PETITIONS ............................................................................................................................ 2111 Neurological Services (Post-polio Syndrome) (PE873) ...................................................................... 2111 Road Design Standards (PE838) ..................................................................................................... 2113 Wind Farm Construction (Public Inquiry) (PE800).............................................................................. 2114 Erskine Bridge (Tolls) (PE869) ......................................................................................................... 2114 Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 (PE836) ................................................................... 2114 Sports Academy (Scottish Borders) (PE849)..................................................................................... 2115 Fishing Industry (PE804) ................................................................................................................. 2115 Rural Schools (Closure) (PE872) ..................................................................................................... 2116 PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE 17th Meeting 2005, Session 2 CONVENER THE FOLLOWING ALSO ATTENDED : *Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab) Dr James Crow ther Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) DEPU TY CONVENER Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP) *John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Margo Mac Donald (Lothians) (Ind) John Sw inburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP) COMMI TTEE MEMBERS *Jac kie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) *Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab) CLERK TO THE COMMITTE E *Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab) Jim Johnston Ros ie Kane (Glasgow ) (SSP) *Campbell Martin (West of Scotland) (Ind) ASSISTANT CLERK *John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) Richard Hough (LD) Ms Sandra White (Glasgow ) (SNP) LOC ATION COMMI TTEE SUBSTITU TES Committee Room 5 Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP) Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (La b) Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con) Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) *attended 2087 9 NOVEMBER 2005 2088 Scottish Parliament people have participated in those seminars and 71 per cent say that they have not previously participated in such events. Public Petitions Committee The Scottish Civic Forum has developed a reputation for independence and it has developed Wednesday 9 November 2005 expertise in engaging with people whose voices are not usually heard in politics. In the context that [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 10:03] citizenship education—particularly among young people—is a national priority, organisations such New Petitions as the Scottish Civic Forum are more likely to be effective in engaging with disaffected groups. The role of the forum reflects the aspiration to reduce Scottish Civic Forum (Funding) (PE895) the democratic deficit in Scottish politics through The Convener (Michael McMahon): Good participatory public meetings. It generates a morning and welcome to the 17th meeting of the deliberative two-way educational process between Public Petitions Committee in 2005. I have the experiences of people outside Parliament and received apologies from Rosie Kane. the values and aspirations that inform policy making within it. Item 1 is new petitions, the first of which is PE895, by Dr James Crowther. It calls for a The problem of the democratic deficit is not only parliamentary debate on the implications of the about structures, institutions or rules; it is also recent decisions by the Scottish Executive and the about educational process. I am sure that Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body about members are all aware that one aspiration of the funding of the Scottish Civic Forum. Before the Scottish Parliament was that it would move away petition was formally launched, it was hosted on from the confrontational politics that are the e-petitions site, where in the period 29 reminiscent of Westminster; doing politics September 2005 to 4 November 2005 it gathered differently meant opening up the political process 934 signatures. The usual e-petition briefing has to communities outside party political been circulated to members. In addition, the organisations. Groups such as the Scottish Civic committee has received a number of letters in Forum work to meet that aspiration. support of the petition and a further 15 signatures The SPCB argues that the role of the Scottish in hard copy. Civic Forum is unnecessary because it duplicates Dr Jim Crowther will make a brief statement in in-house provision. I have already made the point support of his petition; he is supported by Jane about the importance of an independent Meagher. I welcome you both to the committee. organisation that engages with communities You have a few minutes to speak, after which we outside Parliament. In-house activities can overlap will discuss the petition. with that, but they are no substitute for it. The forum’s role cannot be resourced commercially— Dr James Crowther: Thank you for giving us another option that the SPCB suggested. The type the opportunity to speak to the committee. We are of engagement that we are talking about in this from the Edinburgh active citizenship group, which context would be compromised by commercial is made up of a number of local authority and considerations, which would bring into question voluntary sector community education workers. the independent status of the forum’s acti vities. The petition derives from that group of people. The Edinburgh active citizenship group runs It is important for the Scottish Parliament to participatory public seminars to debate key issues stand in favour of the Scottish Civic Forum and to of the day. I will emphasise several points in the find a way to work with it, although the relationship petition that we think need to be taken into will always be difficult and tense because the account. reality is that the forum might have to bite the hand that feeds it. That always creates difficult The first point is that because we are from relationships, but a mature democracy should be community education we see the Scottish Civic able to live with that possibility. Forum through the lens of the community educator. We see it as an organisation that I will end with a statement from Sir Bernard creates possibilities for political—we emphasise Crick. He is an international as well as a national not party-political—education in communities. The authority who was instrumental in the Crick report Scottish Civic Forum creates public fora on citizenship education. He wrote in support of throughout the country in which people can debate the petition. He states: policy issues on which Parliament is legislating “It seems to me a gross repudiation of the original hopes and can raise issues that can be fed into for the Parliament and the parties not to monopolise Parliament. Since April 2002, more than 3,000 political activity, but to stimulate it particularly in relation to the voluntary sector”. 2089 9 NOVEMBER 2005 2090 We hope that members agree with him and with communities. I believe that that pattern has been us and that you will support the Scottish Civic replicated elsewhere. Forum and our petition. To answer your question, the work that the The Convener: Thank you. I open the meeting Scottish Civic Forum does is very difficult. The up to members to ask questions or make points expertise that is required for such work can be about the issues that have been raised. built only through experience of doing things. We have an organisation that has developed that Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab): I welcome expertise, but the expertise will disappear if its the petitioners to the committee. funding is cut. I will pose a couple of questions. First, should You asked about Parliament’s in-house funding of the Scottish Civic Forum be a provision. I appreciate that Parliament attempts to responsibility of the Executive or Parliament? I am explain to communities across the country the aware that during the general debate on the issue opportunities that are created by Parliament’s the responsibility