2302 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 ------------------------------x 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 4 v. S12 93 Cr. 180 KTD 5 RAMZI AHMED YOUSEF, a/k/a "Azan Muhammad," 6 a/k/a "Khurram Khan," a/k/a "Rashed," 7 a/k/a "Kamal Ibraham," a/k/a "Abdul Basit," 8 a/k/a "Adam Ali Qasim," a/k/a "Naji Haddad," 9 a/k/a "Dr. Paul Vijay," a/k/a "Dr. Adel Sabah," 10 a/k/a "Amaldo Forlani," a/k/a "Muhammad Ali Baloch," 11 EYAD ISMOIL, a/k/a "Eyad Ismail," 12 a/k/a "Iyad Mahmoud Ismaeel Najim," ABDUL RAHMAN YASIN, 13 a/k/a "Aboud," ABDUL HAKIM MURAD, 14 a/k/a "Saeed Ahmed," and WALI KHAN AMIN SHAH, 15 a/k/a "Grabi Ibrahim Hahsen," 16 Defendants. 17 ------------------------------x 18 19 July 17, 1996 9:30 a.m. 20 21 Before: 22 HON. KEVIN THOMAS DUFFY, 23 District Judge, 24 and a jury 25 2303 1 2 3 APPEARANCES 4 5 MARY JO WHITE, United States Attorney for the 6 Southern District of New York DIETRICH SNELL, 7 MICHAEL GARCIA, Assistant United States Attorneys 8 9 ROY KULCSAR, Attorney for defendant Yousef 10 11 CLOVER BARRETT, BERNARD UDELL, 12 Attorneys for defendant Murad 13 DAVID GREENFIELD, 14 Attorney for defendant Shah 15 Also Present: Lillie Grant, Paralegal U.S. Attorney's Office 16 17 AZIZ ISMAIL HASSAM MOWAD 18 MIRA RIVERA 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2304 1 (Trial resumed) 2 (Jury not present) 3 THE COURT: I have gone through the 3500 material 4 on Ferro. I gather he is strictly a chain of custody 5 person. 6 MR. SNELL: That is correct, your Honor, as far 7 as the government is concerned. I understand that counsel 8 for Mr. Murad wished to pursue other matters as well with 9 him, and in the interests of expediting things, we are not 10 going to object to that. 11 THE COURT: Guys, when I say 9:30, I mean 9:30. 12 I don't want to be reduced to doing things like Eddie 13 Weinfeld used to do but I will do it. I will put the jury 14 in the box and let them sit and wait and see who comes late. 15 MR. UDELL: Apologize, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Mira Rivera is going to be the 17 interpreter again today. 18 Do you have another witness after Ferro? 19 MR. SNELL: Yes, your Honor, but we anticipate 20 that Ferro may be the entire day. 21 THE COURT: Not on direct. 22 MR. SNELL: No, certainly not on direct, but 23 taking the cross into consideration. 24 MR. GREENFIELD: Your Honor, might we take the 25 time on another matter? 2305 1 THE COURT: Yes. 2 MR. GREENFIELD: Monday I received a copy of a 3 letter advising me that the government is in possession of a 4 statement of my client, that he identified himself as 5 Ibriham Rabi Hassan of Norway when he was first approached 6 by Philippine law enforcement on or around January 11, 1995. 7 The government says they intend to elicit this statement 8 during the direct examination of whoever the witness is who 9 says the statement was made. I tried to ascertain if and 10 when the government came into receipt of this statement. 11 What I think I learned, and I am sure the government will 12 correct me if I misstate it, is, the witness, only within 13 the last week or so or 10 days -- I don't want to put a time 14 limit on it -- told the government of this statement. But 15 the witness had been interviewed on prior occasions and 16 never mentioned the statement. I think that is what I 17 heard. I spoke to Mr. Garcia about it, and maybe he could 18 comment and make sure that I have stated it correctly. 19 THE COURT: Government? 20 MR. GARCIA: Your Honor, it is a fairly accurate 21 representation. This witness arrived in New York 22 approximately two weeks ago. He was interviewed about a 23 week ago and informed us that the statement had been made. 24 It is an oral statement, it is not in writing anywhere. 25 This witness was interviewed in Manila. He was considered 2306 1 primarily a chain of custody witness at the time, and he was 2 not asked about this matter. 3 THE COURT: I assume you thought you had a case 4 without this witness's testimony as to this particular 5 matter. 6 MR. GARCIA: That is correct. 7 THE COURT: We will see whether you did or you 8 didn't. It is not coming in. 9 MR. GREENFIELD: Thank you, your Honor. 10 MR. GARCIA: Judge, is this also a good time to 11 raise one other issue with the court? 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MR. GARCIA: This is something the government and 14 defense counsel have been working on. It is our 15 understanding that counsel for Mr. Murad will seek to 16 introduce portions of certain tapes through this witness on 17 cross-examination. The government in turn would seek to 18 introduce other portions of the same tape on their redirect. 19 We have, I believe, worked out an agreement with Miss 20 Barrett on a redacted transcript and a redacted tape 21 recording, copies of which have been passed out to other 22 counsel, and have also agreed, subject to the court's 23 approval, that during Miss Barrett's presentation of her 24 section of the tape that the government sections would also 25 be played at that time, to save time. 2307 1 THE COURT: One playing of the tapes, is that 2 what you are telling me? 3 MR. GARCIA: Exactly, your Honor. 4 THE COURT: Is that the deal? 5 MS. BARRETT: I have no problem with the 6 government playing the tape at the same time that we play 7 the section, your Honor, but -- 8 THE COURT: I can't hear you and I doubt if 9 Martha can either. You haven't done something and that is 10 all I can hear. What is it? 11 MS. BARRETT: I have no problem with the 12 government playing their section of the tape at the same 13 time that we play ours, your Honor. It is just that I would 14 like to be able to play the tape once continuously, and then 15 to aid in my cross-examination I would like to be able to 16 play segments in connection with certain questions that I 17 plan to ask. 18 THE COURT: Yes, sure. 19 MS. BARRETT: That would be OK? 20 THE COURT: Sure. 21 MR. GREENFIELD: I can envision a problem, your 22 Honor, and maybe the government knows the answer to it. Are 23 there any Bruton problems with respect to this? 24 MR. GARCIA: None, your Honor. There is no 25 mention of Mr. Greenfield's client and all references to Mr. 2308 1 Yousef have been removed. 2 THE COURT: I assume this is the same tape we 3 heard at the hearing. 4 MR. GARCIA: That is correct, your Honor, 5 portions of that tape. 6 MR. GREENFIELD: It was so long ago. 7 MR. GARCIA: One other matter. There were three 8 instances where there was a disagreement over the 9 transcript -- minor in terms of length disagreements. As we 10 did in the previous case, we inserted both versions, one in 11 italics and one in print, to indicate disagreement. 12 THE COURT: Get the witness, bring him out. 13 (Jury present) 14 ALBERT I.D. FERRO, 15 called as a witness by the government, 16 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 17 THE COURT: And you were the interpreter, Mira. 18 Everybody has a smile for you. That's nice. All right. 19 (Continued on next page) 20 21 22 23 24 25 2309 1 DIRECT EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. SNELL: 3 Q. Mr. Ferro, how are you employed? 4 A. I work for the government of the Philippines. 5 Q. What do you do for the government of the 6 Philippines? 7 A. I am a police officer. 8 Q. Do you work for the Philippine National Police? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. How long have you been working for the Philippine 11 National Police? 12 A. From 1991 to the present. 13 Q. Prior to 1991, what were you doing? 14 A. I was with the armed forces. 15 Q. What branches of the armed forces were you with? 16 A. With the Philippine Constabulary. 17 Q. What is your current assignment within the 18 Philippine National Police? 19 A. I am assigned to the Intelligence Command as a 20 branch chief of a group. 21 Q. What group is that? 22 A. It is the Special Investigation Group. 23 Q. Where are your offices located? 24 A. At Camp Crame. 25 Q. Is that in Quezon City? 2310 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Just so we are all clear about the geography, is 3 Quezon City part of what is known as Metro Manila? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. Mr. Ferro, do you have a particular rank or 6 title? 7 A. Yes, sir. I am a chief inspector. 8 Q. Does the title of chief inspector equate to some 9 title within the military? 10 A.