Review Panel Commission d'examen Public Hearing Audience publique Roberts Bank Terminal 2 Projet du Terminal 2 à Project Roberts Bank Review Panel Commission d'examen Ms Jocelyne Beaudet Mme Jocelyne Beaudet Dr. Dave Levy M. Dave Levy Dr. Douw Steyn M. Douw Steyn Sandman Hotel Victoria Sandman Hotel Victoria 2852 Douglas Street 2852, rue Douglas Victoria, BC Victoria (C.-B.) June 13, 2019 Le 13 juin 2019 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com This publication is the Cette publication est un recorded verbatim compte rendu textuel des transcript and, as such, is délibérations et, en tant recorded and transcribed in que tel, est enregistrée et either of the official transcrite dans l’une ou languages, depending on the l’autre des deux langues languages spoken by the officielles, compte tenu de participant at the public la langue utilitisée par le hearing. participant à l’audience publique. Printed in Canada Imprimé au Canada 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com - iii - TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by 4433 Esquimalt First Nation Questions from the Panel 4450 Presentation by 4470 Scia’new First Nation Questions from the Panel 4500 Presentation by 4534 T’Sou-ke First Nation Undertakings on pages 4511 and 4528 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4430 1 Victoria, B.C. / Victoria (C.-B.) 2 --- Upon commencing on Thursday, June 13, 2019 3 at 0901 / L'audience débute le jeudi 4 13 juin 2019 à 0901 5 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good day, and 6 welcome to the third session of the second part of the 7 public hearing regarding the environmental assessment 8 of the Roberts Bank Terminal 2 Project proposed by 9 Vancouver Fraser Port Authority. 10 My name is Jocelyne Beaudet, and I'm 11 the Chair of this Review Panel. And please allow me 12 to introduce my colleagues. 13 On my left is Dr. David Levy, and on 14 my right is Dr. Douw Steyn. 15 Also with us today are members of the 16 secretariat, Cindy Parker, who is the Panel manager. 17 And we have three analysts with us, Samantha Sabo, 18 Tracy Utting and Kate Witherly. 19 Gavin Fitch is our legal counsel. In 20 addition is our court reporter, Kristin Johansson, and 21 audio-visual technicians from Freeman Company. 22 The staff will be glad to assist you 23 with any problems or questions you may have. 24 The purpose of the hearing is to allow 25 the Panel to receive information from participants on 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4431 1 the potential environmental effects and cumulative 2 effects resulting from the proponent's proposal to 3 construct a new terminal. The hearing is also 4 designed to provide opportunities for the Vancouver 5 Fraser Port Authority to explain the project and to 6 respond to concerns and questions raised by 7 participants, including federal, provincial, regional 8 and local governments, indigenous groups, 9 non-governmental and civic organizations, and the 10 general public. 11 We are an independent Panel. We are 12 not part of the Government of Canada, the Government 13 of British Columbia or the Canadian Environmental 14 Assessment Agency. 15 Our Terms of reference were updated in 16 March 2019 to include marine shipping activities 17 associated with the project as part of the definition 18 of a designated project. From the beginnings of our 19 mandate, the Panel has included marine shipping 20 associated with the project in its assessment. 21 The recent update to our Terms of 22 Reference means that the Minister can now consider the 23 Panel’s conclusions and recommendations regarding 24 marine shipping in her environmental assessment 25 decision and related conditions to the proponent. 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4432 1 So the transcripts. There’s a 2 transcript for our proceedings, and they’re being 3 produced by our court reporter. And for that reason, 4 it is essential that participants use the microphone 5 when speaking. 6 Transcripts of the proceedings will 7 generally be available on the registry the next day. 8 And when you do speak, we ask you that you identify 9 yourselves so your name is on the record and you spell 10 your last name for the court reporter the first time 11 you speak. 12 If more than one person are presenting 13 at the table at the same time, there’s a need to 14 identify yourself each time you speak. 15 I’d like to remind you that you direct 16 your questions or comments to me as the Panel Chair 17 and I will then direct them to the appropriate person 18 or group for a response. 19 The hearing sessions are audio webcast 20 and can be accessed through the website of the 21 Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency. 22 As a courtesy to everyone I would like 23 you to silence your cell phones, please. 24 And in case of an emergency, you are 25 asked to leave the building immediately through the 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4433 1 closest exit. And the muster station in case of an 2 evacuation of the building is at the front of the 3 hotel. 4 If at any time you have any cause for 5 concern, please advise immediately a member of the 6 secretariat. 7 Thank you for your attention. 8 So now we are going to start the 9 hearing. And I would like to invite the 10 representatives of the Esquimalt Nation, please. 11 Good morning, and welcome. And you 12 can go ahead when you are ready, please. 13 PRESENTATION 14 COUNCILLOR THOMAS: It’s on? Yeah. 15 Good morning. My name is Robert 16 Thomas. I’m lead Councilor for Esquimalt Nation. 17 First of all, I'd like to thank you 18 and welcome you to the traditional territory of the 19 Lekwungen people, which is the Esquimalt and Songees 20 Nation. 21 The Esquimalt Nation is a small 22 Nation, approximately 300 members. On the water of 23 Esquimalt Harbour our traditional name is Kosapsum. 24 Our connection with the land and the 25 resources of the large territory goes back thousands 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4434 1 of years. In that time, we have learned to live in a 2 finely-balanced relationship with the seasons, the 3 tides and the seasons of our lives that have sustained 4 us. 5 And we repaid the land through 6 commitment and stewardship and through our ceremonies. 7 I understand this obligation as a sacred trust. 8 The Esquimalt Nation was one of 14 9 Nations that signed a treaty with Governor James 10 Douglas over 150 years ago. The treaty granted the 11 Nation the right to continued use, the liberty to hunt 12 over unoccupied lands, to carry on our fisheries as 13 formerly. 14 The Douglas Treaty has been held up 15 through Court cases as being valid and binding on the 16 Crown governments. This means that the federal and 17 provincial governments are obliged by law to provide 18 access to resources as formerly. 19 The question today and moving forward 20 is what do the Nation’s rights mean if resources to 21 hunt and fish are not available due to urban 22 development and forest fisheries management. That is 23 the challenge of current discussions. 24 Esquimalt and Songhees Nations have 25 historically comprised the Lekwungen Nation of 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4435 1 occupied and utilized lands, waters and resources 2 around present-day Victoria and San Juan Islands. 3 Although we inhabit and utilize resources from the 4 land, we have always been ocean people. Our 5 territorial waters have sustained us through resources 6 and have been our highways, serving as trade routes 7 and connecting us to relatives on the San Juan Islands 8 and Washington State. 9 Stemming from that use and occupation, 10 Esquimalt has constitutionally-protected Douglas 11 Treaty rights and Aboriginal rights, including 12 Aboriginal title. 13 Containers from the project will pass 14 through our traditional territory and have the 15 potential impact on us. 16 We are especially concerned about the 17 impacts of fuel spill –- impacts a fuel spill would 18 have on our Aboriginal title and treaty rights, the 19 ocean, fish, aquatic plants, wildlife, migratory birds 20 that rely on the marine environment, which we have, as 21 I said, Aboriginal treaty rights to harvest. 22 Our shorelines, our traditional lands, 23 our sacred sites, our traditional ceremony and 24 practices, the health of our people, the economic 25 interests and our culture. 613-521-0703 StenoTran www.stenotran.com 4436 1 As previously noted, the ocean and its 2 resources are essential to our culture and way of 3 life. Harm to them is to harm us and our culture. 4 We do not want to see an increase in 5 container traffic through our traditional territory 6 but feel such increase is inevitable. As such, we 7 have taken steps to share in wealth generated from 8 tankers and containers passing through our traditional 9 territories to minimize the impacts of those tankers 10 and containers on environment and our culture. 11 Cumulative effects. Over the past 12 number of years there has been a growing body of 13 evidence that the ocean and our resources are 14 suffering from extensive environmental deterioration. 15 Collapsing steelhead, Chinook and resident killer 16 whale population are just three examples that suggest 17 an imbalance in the marine environment and real 18 long-term problem with health of the sea.