Vol. 800 Wednesday No. 3 16 October 2019 PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDEROFBUSINESS Metropolitan Police: Use of Section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 Private Notice Question......................................................................................................................93 Historical Institutional Abuse (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL] First Reading......................................................................................................................................96 Business of the House Motion on Standing Orders ................................................................................................................96 Committee of Selection Membership Motion ...........................................................................................................................96 Birmingham Commonwealth Games Bill [HL] Motion to Agree .................................................................................................................................97 Sentencing (Pre-consolidation Amendments) Bill [HL] (Law Commission Bill) Motion to Agree .................................................................................................................................97 Queen’s Speech Debate (3rd Day)...............................................................................................................................97 Grand Committee Specific Food Hygiene (Regulation (EC) No. 853/2004) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee ....................................................................................................GC 1 Agriculture (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee...................................................................................................GC 11 Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products and Common Agricultural Policy (Miscellaneous Amendments etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019 Import and Export Licences (Amendments etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products (Transitional Arrangements etc.) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Common Agricultural Policy and Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee...................................................................................................GC 24 Environment and Wildlife (Legislative Functions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee...................................................................................................GC 25 Pesticides (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee...................................................................................................GC 28 Financial Services (Electronic Money, Payment Services and Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee...................................................................................................GC 33 Prospectus (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Considered in Grand Committee..................................................................................................GC 43 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. 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This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2019-10-16 The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour Lab Co-op Labour and Co-operative Party LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2019, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 93 Met Police: Sect. 14 of the POA 1986[16 OCTOBER 2019] Met Police: Sect. 14 of the POA 1986 94 House of Lords going to impose this ban, in view of the responsibility that the mayor has for the Metropolitan Police and the Wednesday 16 October 2019 fact that many would regard this as a ban on freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest, and a 3 pm potential thin end of the wedge. Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Coventry. When did the Metropolitan Police last impose such a ban under Section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 and in respect of which protests? Do the police have Metropolitan Police: Use of Section 14 of any guidelines, laid down or approved by any elected the Public Order Act 1986 representatives, on what constitutes serious disruption Private Notice Question to the life of the community? How long does the ban apply for? Is it for a limited period, in perpetuity or for 3.07 pm as long as the Metropolitan Police wishes it to apply? Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer Do the Mayor of London or the Home Secretary have any statutory powers to overrule this ban? I understand To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they that legal action in the form of an application for have had discussions with the Metropolitan Police judicial review has been launched over the police regarding their use of Section 14 of the Public decision. Does the Metropolitan Police accept that it Order Act 1986 to ban protests by Extinction Rebellion will not arrest or charge anybody for breaching the and whether they have been informed how long the ban, pending the outcome of the judicial review? ban will remain in force. Baroness Williams of Trafford: The noble Lord is Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD): My absolutely right: responses to public order breaches Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have have to be proportionate. He asks what constitutes given private notice. serious disruption. It might be subjective, but nobody who has gone around London in the past two weeks The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams could argue that this did not cause serious disruption of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, the right to protest to the city. The proportionality will, of course, be peacefully is a long-standing tradition in this country. tested through the courts. The noble Lord asked me However, it does not extend to unlawful behaviour, how long the ban will be in force. We know when it and the police have powers to deal with such acts. started but I do not know when it will finish. The use of these powers and the management of demonstrations are operational matters for the police. Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con): My Lords, does The Government have been clear that they expect a my noble friend not think that the whole country firm stance to be taken against protestors who significantly should recognise that, when it comes down to it, both disrupt the lives of others. the Liberal and Labour parties are not prepared to stand up for hard-working people in this country Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: Does the going about their business—indeed, that they are prepared Minister think that a citizen’s right to have a voice is a to support tactics that have nothing to do with free question of democracy? Given that, does she think speech and have resulted in resulted in huge congestion that a blanket ban across the whole of London for an and pollution, which are the very things that some of indefinite period is a proportionate response, as required the protesters say that they are concerned about? Is it by the Act? The Minister will know that judicial review not a disgrace that the Mayor of London is not proceedings have been started today. Can she give an prepared to support the police in carrying out their undertaking that, whatever the outcome of that review, duties? the Government will give further guidance on what “proportionate” means? Baroness Williams of Trafford: I agree with my noble friend on all counts. Coming back to his point Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, the word about hard-working people, I saw the protesters described “proportionate” is long established in law. The noble last week as “Glastonbury meets Waitrose”. Some of Baroness asks whether it is democratic to have a those people do not know what it is like to have to use citizen’s voice. Of course it is, but public disorder the Tube because you simply cannot use the bus. It disrupts the lives of others; we have seen that over the affects people’s pockets, particularly those of the hard- past couple of weeks, when it has been impossible to working people of London. get around the centre