HEALTH COMMITTEE Tuesday 20 April 2004 (Afternoon) Session 2 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2004. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Licensing Division, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty’s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Tuesday 20 April 2004 Col. ITEMS IN PRIVATE .................................................................................................................................. 705 SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION.................................................................................................................... 709 Food for Particular Nutritional Uses (Addition of Substances for Specific Nutritional Purposes) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/90) .................................................................. 709 Regulation of Care (Fees) (Scotland) Order 2004 (SSI 2004/93) .......................................................... 709 Regulation of Care (Requirements as to Care Services) (Scotland) Order 2004 (SSI 2004/94) ............... 709 Regulation of Care (Applications and Provision of Advice) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2004 (SSI 2004/95) ................................................................................................................................ 709 Regulation of Care (Registration and Registers) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/96) ................................................................................................................................ 709 National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/97) ................................................................................................................................ 709 National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/98) ..................................................................................................... 709 National Health Service (Dental Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/101) ..... 709 National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendm ent Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/102).................................................................................................... 709 National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) Amendment (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/103) .............................................................................................................................. 709 National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/106) .... 709 National Health Service (Primary Medical Services Performers Lists) (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/114) .............................................................................................................................. 709 National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/115) .............................................................................................................................. 709 National Health Service (Primary Medical Services Section 17C Agreements) (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/116) ...................................................................................................................... 710 National Health Service (Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/122) ................. 710 Natural Mineral Water, Spring Water and Bottled Drinking Water Amendment (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/132) ...................................................................................................................... 710 Jam and Similar Products (Scotland) Regulations 2004 (SSI 2004/133) ................................................ 710 ANNUAL REPORT................................................................................................................................... 716 HEALTH COMMITTEE 10th Meeting 2004, Session 2 COMMI TTEE SUBSTITU TES Robert Brow n (Glasgow ) (LD) CONVENER Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab) *Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP) Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Ms Sandra White (Glasgow ) (SNP) DEPU TY CONVENER *attended *Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab) CLERK TO THE COMMITTE E COMMI TTEE MEMBERS Jennifer Smart *Mr David Dav idson (North East Scotland) (Con) *Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab) SENIOR ASSISTANT CLERK *Kate Maclean (Dundee West) (Lab) Tracey White *Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenoc k and Inverclyde) (Lab) *Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP) ASSISTANT CLERK *Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD) Roz Wheeler *Dr Jean Turner (Strathkelv in and Bearsden) (Ind) LOC ATION Committee Room 1 705 20 APRIL 2004 706 Scottish Parliament The Convener: I take your point. Does any other member share that view? Health Committee Members: No. The Convener: Do you wish to press the matter Tuesday 20 April 2004 to a vote, Mike? Mike Rumbles: Yes. (Afternoon) The Convener: The question is, that item 4 be [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 14:02] taken in private. Are members agreed? Members: No. Items in Private The Convener: There will be a division. FOR The Convener (Christine Grahame): I Dav idson, Mr Dav id (North East Scotland) (Con) welcome everyone to the 10th meeting this year of Eadie, Helen (Dunfermline East) (Lab) the Health Committee and I direct members to Grahame, Christine (South of Scotland) (SNP) Hughes, Janis (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab) today’s agenda. The first item of business is to ask Maclean, Kate (Dundee West) (Lab) members to consider taking items 4, 5 and 6 in Robison, Shona (Dundee East) (SNP) private. I will expand on that. Item 4 concerns the Turner, Dr Jean (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Ind) committee’s work-force planning event. Taking AGAINST that item in private would allow us to discuss fully the bids that we have received and the best way of Rumbles, Mike (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD) progressing matters. Incidentally, the clerks, who ABSTENTIONS were part of the budgeting process, would also be McNeil, Mr Duncan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) able to contribute to the discussion, which obviously could not happen if we took the item in The Convener: The result of the division is: For public. Are members content to take item 4 in 7, Against 1, Abstentions 1. Item 4 will be taken in private? private. Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and It is suggested that we also take item 5 in private Kincardine) (LD): No, I am not content. I repeat to allow the adviser to brief members on the what I have said before: it seems ironic that we budget process for 2005-06. That could not be should move into private session to discuss an done in public session. Does any member oppose event for which we are seeking public that? participation. I do not think that such an approach Mike Rumbles: I make the same point about helps the ethos of openness and transparency that this proposal as I made about the previous we are trying to inculcate in the Parliament and I proposal. The item is appropriate for a briefing see no overriding reason why we need to take the session for members of the committee; it is not item in private. appropriate for a public meeting of the Health The Convener: I see a lot of merit in what you Committee. We should always meet in public are saying, Mike. However, the clerks have had a unless there are extenuating circumstances that lot to do with the whole process and I would quite require us to meet in private. I feel that we are like them to contribute to our discussions. They automatically going into private session in our simply cannot do so if we take the item in public, meetings. because standing orders do not allow them to take The Convener: My experience from previous part. I think that it would be useful to take the item committees—which may be the same as that of in private, because I really want them to feed into other members—is that these are the very the committee’s discussion. circumstances in which briefing sessions are held Mike Rumbles: To me, there is quite a in private, as they are not evidence-taking distinction between what we are talking about and sessions. Nonetheless, I acknowledge your views. a briefing session in which the clerks participate Do you wish to put the matter to a vote? and give us information—the process is correct Mike Rumbles: Yes. I wish to record my and proper in that respect. However, it is being dissent. suggested that a parliamentary committee should go into private so that the clerks can brief The Convener: The question is, that item 5 be members on issues. That is not the correct way of taken in private. Are we agreed? working. Members: No. The Convener: There will be a division. 707 20 APRIL 2004 708 FOR not pick an individual ourselves. There is no need Dav idson, Mr Dav id ( North East Scotland) (Con) to name the person in the briefing paper—I do not Eadie, Helen (Dunfermline East) (Lab) understand why we are given individual names. Grahame, Christine