M129 JUNE 2014 Presented by INDIA ABROAD PERSON OF THE YEAR 2013 INDIA ABROAD FRIEND FRANCO ORIGLIA/GETTY IMAGES OF INDIA AWARD 2013 MASTER OF THE SIGHTS JAMES IVORY AND SOUNDS OF INDIA M130 JUNE 2014 Presented by INDIA ABROAD PERSON OF THE YEAR 2013 ‘I still dream about India’ Director James Ivory , winner of the India Abroad Friend of India Award 2013 , speaks to Aseem Chhabra in his most eloquent interview yet about his elegant and memorable films set India Director James Ivory, left, and the late producer Ismail Merchant arrive at the Deauville American Film Festival in France, where Ivory was honored, in 2003. Their partnership lasted over four decades, till Merchant’s death in May 2005. James Ivory For elegantly creating a classic genre; for a repertoire of exquisitely crafted films; for taking India to the world through cinema. PHILIPPE WOJAZER/REUTERS ames Ivory’s association with India goes back nearly remember it very clearly. When we made Shakespeare Wallah it six decades when he first made two documentaries We made four feature films in a row and I think of that was much better. Plus we couldn’t see our about India. He later directed six features in India — time as a heroic period in the history of MIP ( Merchant rushes. We weren’t near any place where Jeach an iconic representation of India of that time Ivory Productions ). We had no money and it was very hard we could project rushes with sound. For period. to raise money to make the kind of films we wanted to The Householder we found a movie theater Ivory, 86, recently sat in the sprawling garden of his coun - make. that allowed us to watch the silent picture try home in upstate New York with Aseem Chhabra and It was also a time when there was very little modern rushes. spoke about his memories of working in India and the asso - equipment in India. And it was almost impossible to bring Also recording equipment in India only ciations he made with Indians — actors and filmmakers. things in easily, particularly sound equipment. Somehow we worked inside studios. But we couldn’t take He said he still dreams about India. managed, but it was always a struggle. the sound equipment outside. Jim, this will take you back several decades, but when you But there was a big film industry in India. It wasn’t until we made Bombay Talkie in think of the early days of shooting The Householder , what There was, but I remember we only had four lights to Bombay that we were finally able to see the are the memories that come to your mind? make The Householder . I don’t know how we did it, but our rushes at night in a comfortable movie the - PAGE It was a very long time ago — wasn’t it? We set up our cameraman Subrata Mitra ( Satyajit Ray’s cameraman in ater. M131 company and then in 1962 we made The Householder . But I the early days ) somehow pulled it through. The Guru was your first color film, but g Presented by M131 JUNE 2014 INDIA ABROAD PERSON OF THE YEAR 2013 f PAGE M130 ‘I still dream about India’ the budget was very high. I am fascinated by how this creative trust We made The Guru for 20th Century Fox developed between you two. She wrote prac - with their blocked rupees. It was the first tically all of your scripts, right? time an American studio was going to Yes, only once or twice I worked with finance the film, in India but it was a someone else. bureaucratic nightmare to free up that So she knew exactly what you wanted. money. No, not always. Sometimes she didn’t By the time you made The Guru , the com - know. But we had to work it out. I remem - pany had become quite big. You even had ber we were in the midst of shooting British actors — Michael York and Rita Hullabaloo Over Georgie And Bonnie’s Tushingham acting in it. Pictures in Jodhpur. She was in Delhi send - Well, don’t forget we also had some of the ing me scenes. Or she would try to dictate leading Indian actors in it as well — Utpal them over the telephone. But you remember Dutt, Aparna Sen. There was Madhur phones in those days — making trunk calls Jaffrey and others. and lines getting cut off? I loved how you opened Bombay Talkie I wasn’t quite sure what I was making. with that giant typewriter set. It was not a The scenes kept coming, but I was never spoof, but your exploration of how over-the- clear what the film was about. top Hindi cinema could be. Didn’t you have a full bound script? The film was set in the Bombay film No, we started with a bunch of pages and industry. We shot a lot of it in studios, par - some vague idea. Ismail had planned to ticularly the opening scene of Helen dancing shoot certain scenes first. on a giant typewriter. That red typewriter is It was a bit chaotic. still — after all the films I have made and all The actors were fine with it? of the places I have shot in; The Chateau of Oh, they were very professional people — Versailles and in Florence — that typewriter Above, The Householder, the first Merchant Ivory Productions film. It was followed by four India-centric Peggy Ashcroft, Saeed Jaffrey, Victor is still my favorite set. films in a row and James Ivory thinks of that time as a heroic period in the history of MIP. Banerjee, who we had seen in Satyajit Ray’s Ismail ( Merchant ) wrote in his autobiog - Below, Heat And Dust, which was made two decades later, was Ivory’s last film set in India. The Chess Players . raphy that you had a dream about that type - You are talking about actors — Shashi writer. Kapoor was in practically every Indian film No, well maybe it was also a dream. But I of yours. What did you and Ismail see in him remember I saw a Bombay film where a girl as actor? Because his career hadn’t become was sitting in a giant martini glass, with her that big in India at the time of The legs hanging over the edge. I think that’s Householder . what gave me the idea of a giant typewriter. Both he and Leela Naidu had only made a Let’s talk about your early days of working few films at that time. The only real profes - with Ruth ( Prawer Jhabvala ). She was ini - sional in The Householder was Durga Khote tially reluctant to work with you. who had made many many films. No, she was willing to give us her works Shashi had a tremendous vitality and immediately. charm. He was incredibly good looking and But she first pretended on the phone that he became a very good friend. she was her mother-in-law. He trusted us and we trusted him. But that’s because people were calling her He started making more and more films all the time and bothering her and she in Bombay, but always gave his dates to us. would say she was her mother-in-law. But you also found an actor in him that Ruth never liked to talk on the phone. Her hadn’t been discovered in Bombay. entire life, if the phone would ring, Jhab He was a good actor. It (her husband Cyrus Jhabvala ) would always was there, but it was a dif - answer it. Or one of us would answer the ferent kind of acting than phone. She didn’t like talking on the phone. what he was expected to do And you immediately developed a creative in a Bombay film, which working relationship with her? was look marvelous, sing Yes, but no that much during The and dance. Householder . She wrote the script herself And what about Madhur? straight out of her head. She didn’t need to sit with the We would write those air letters back and forth. All my Madhur was not the expected choice for novel. I had no real involvement in it. But with Shakespeare letters and hers are now in an archive, so someday someone Shakespeare Wallah — a role she became Wallah, The Guru and Bombay Talkie we worked together can get industrious and see how we were communicating famous for. No one thought she was the on those screenplays. with each other. right type to play the Bombay film star. But They were all ideas I had concocted. I think especially We were talking about the characters and the situations. I she jumped right into it. with Shakespeare Wallah she felt she had a wonderful scope would give her my ideas and she liked them or didn’t like And you cast her again and again, even to write a very interesting screenplay. them. giving her an older role in Heat And Dust . PAGE How would you both work when she was in India and you Sometimes she would send three air letters — all part of I didn’t want her to play Shashi’s mother M132 in New York? Telephone calls would have been expensive. one long letter. And when we were further along she would in Heat and Dust . That was shocking to me And Ruth didn’t like phone calls? start to write the script and send me parts of it. that someone of the same age as Shashi g M132 JUNE 2014 Presented by INDIA ABROAD PERSON OF THE YEAR 2013 f PAGE M131 ‘I still dream about India’ would play his mother.